Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
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> Rick Baudé Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
I was responding to Warwick's comments:
but wouldn't we also need a parent or grandparent to compare to to be able to come to any conclusion?
and how in the world are we gonna know who we are comparing to whom when we're not even sure who was who in the first place?? You're making me dizzy!
That's it!! I'm staying in the Old Kingdom where I belong. at least there we don't have ANY bodies to get in the way
> > Well we have Tut's body, the fetuses of both
> of
> > his daughters, the body in KV 55. Along with
> Yuya
> > and Thuya who proposed as her possible
> parents.
> > And I believe the skeleton of Mutnojmet's
> her
> > putative sister.
>
> Actually, we have NO remains of anyone related to
> Nefertiti, unless Tutankhamun is her son.
What I was trying to say is that there IS A SELECTION of Amarna bodies to run DNA tests on
if and when the undisputed body of Nefertiti is ever found. If her body is ever found tests could be run on it that would indisputably show what, if any, relationship she had to the other Amarna bodies that have survived. But until her body is found all we're doing is burning bandwidth.
>
> Yuya and Thuya were the parents of Tiye (known
> from the Boundaries Scarab), Great Royal Wife of
> Amenhotep III, so unless you are arguing that Yuya
> and Thuya married off Nefertiti as a daughter(?)
> to their own grandson (Akhenaten), that wouldn't
> make much sense bloodline-wise and would violate,
> I suspect, even royal Egyptian taboo
> sensibilities.
I'm not going to argue that point one way or the other. That's why I stick with the DNA evidence it's one of the few incontrovertible points in archeology.
> If you argue that Ay is Nefertiti's father, we
> still have the problem that there's no remains of
> Ay to compare for mtDNA, and of course, there's no
> evidence that Ay was actually the son of Yuya and
> Thuya, either. It's also been pretty well accepted now that
> Mutnedjmet, wife of Horemheb, is NOT the same as
> the half-sister of Nefertiti, whose name is
> actually Mutbenret (Reeves in Freed, et al. 1999).
However, iirc we do have the bones of a women who is proposed as HOremheb's wife and has been suggested as Nefertiti's half-sister. Again, if we had the undisputed body Nefertiti that problem would be solved instantly.
> So, these are two different women, and Mutnedjmet
> did not hold any royal filiation titles (such as
> consort, sister, mother or daughter of a king) -
> but then again, neither did Ankhsenamun as
> Tutankhamun's Great Royal Wife in her titles
> (Eaton-Krauss and Graefe 1985).
>
I won't argue the point. Interesting about Akhsenamun, though. Generally speaking I don't take names too terribly seriously as proof of anything. In addition to that I've never taken the idea that Neferiti was related to Horemhab's wife as anything more than another Amarna urban legend. Just go through Beckman's king list contrary to what people think these guys had hundreds of different names.
> The body in KV 55, a male, is related to
> Tutankhamun - he could be a brother or a father
> (Harrison and Connolly, et al. 1969). Despite the
> recent documentary which placed the age of these
> bones between 25 to 40, 3 previous physical
> examinations of the KV 55 remains could not attain
> such an older age, and felt the body was no older
> than 25 (Derry 1931; Harrison 1966; Filer 2000).
>
>
> So, the KV 55 remains being Akhenaten doesn't seem
> reasonable, considering he already had 2 toddler
> daughters by Year 2 of his 17 year reign (Smith
> and Redford 1976). (That said, I await a formal
> report on the CT scan shown in the recent
> documentary, rather than simple vague statement
> the KV 55 remains "could be" possibly Akhenaten).
I absolutely agree with you the body is not Akhenaten's. If anything it was an 'emergency' or 'salvage burial'or 'reburial' choose your description for Smenkhare. this is one part of the tar-pits that has been drained and should be sealed up.
>
> Tarpits, indeed.
>
> Reference:
>
> Derry, D. E. 1931. Notes on the Skeleton hitherto
> believed to be that of King Akhenaten. ASAE 31:
> 115-119.
>
> Eaton-Krauss, M. and E. Graefe 1985. The Small
> Golden Shrine from the Tomb of Tutankhamun.
> Tut'ankhamun Tomb Series. J. R. Harris. Oxford:
> Griffith Institute.
>
> Filer, J. 2000. The KV 55 body: the facts.
> Egyptian Archaeology 17(Autumn): 13-14.
>
> Freed, R. E., Y. J. Markowitz, et al., Eds. 1999.
> Pharaohs of the Sun: Akhenaten: Nefertiti:
> Tutankhamen. Boston: Museum Fine Arts/Bulfinch
> Press/Little, Brown and Company.
>
> Harrison, R. G. 1966. An Anatomical Examination of
> the Pharaonic Remains Purported to be Akhenaten.
> JEA 52: 95-119.
>
> Harrison, R. G., R. C. Connolly, et al. 1969.
> Kinship of Smenkhkare and Tutankhamun Demonstrated
> Serologically. Nature 224(October 25, 1969):
> 325-326.
>
> Smith, R. W. and D. B. Redford 1976. The Akhenaten
> Temple Project. Vol. I: Initial Discoveries.
> Warminster: Aris and Phillips.
>
> Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
>
> Oriental Institute
> Oriental Studies Doctoral Program
> Oxford University
> Oxford, United Kingdom
>
>