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May 4, 2024, 9:30 pm UTC    
July 13, 2007 01:23PM
Theories like the OCT, GOCT, and GPWT can prop themselves up like a house of cards indefinitely when they are based on a false premise. This is what I tried to convey to Scott when I first saw his presentation – but he only seems to see the wonderful complexity of where his theory went after that point. But the false premise is the key, and it’s evident right here – there simply isn’t the sufficient evidence over the relevant period of Egyptian history to make any safe correlation with Orion.

It’s all down to seeing what you want to see in the layout of the three Giza pyramids, and very little else beyond that.

For me, the recent posts from Robert Bauval and Scott are indicative more than anything of how little material has been found to support this central Orion link – vague mentions here and there, astronomical manipulations, things alluded to, stretched interpretations, reading words and symbols in a selective way – but the most telling thing is the disproportionately small amount of evidence there is in comparison to the huge timescale, effort and physical presence of the pyramids themselves.

The contemporary religious and cultural pointers to Orion which should exist commensurate with the scale and importance of the pyramids simply aren’t there – and they should be, in the same way that a future archaeologist investigating our society would find innumerable cross or crucifix symbols and textual references to support his theory that our vast cathedrals (many laid out in the shape of a cross) are indicative of a widespread religion in our culture that involved the worship of a crucified man.

If Orion was important enough to the AEs for them to mimic it in the groundplan of the largest construction project imaginable, then it would surely be important enough to leave traces in every walk of life: jewellery, pottery, other monuments, hieroglyphs, all depicting or mimicking the three Orion stars. The same way the Christian cross permeates every aspect of our society.

That is the elephant in the room – the complete lack of corroborating evidence on a scale commensurate with the pyramids. If there was, I’m sure Mr Bauval – with his diligent searching over the past few years - would have found it by now.

In all these years, Robert has unearthed some interesting scattered references to do with Orion, but I hazard a guess that anyone who looked long and hard enough could come up with meaningful references to almost ANY constellation, individual star or planet visible to the AEs in the night sky. Andrew Collins, for instance, has produced the Cygnus correlation theory - along these lines - to rival the Orion one.

But this is the primary, inescapable point on which everything turns: the correlations are false, unproven premises. As has been pointed out time and time again on this forum, the layout of the Giza pyramids can much more safely be explained in terms of geology. Once that is clear, bang goes the Orion correlation: the layout may look vaguely like the three Orion stars (or indeed part of Cygnus), but this is coincidental and not intentional. Once that is established, everything, absolutely everything which follows in the OCT, the GOCT, prescession wheels or the Cygnus Correlation Theory is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what you look for, or how long you spend looking for it after that point. I believe you could spend the rest of your life trying to make the scant evidence support the structures these theories have conjured up, but it doesn’t matter, because the foundations are fatally flawed. The key again and again is the initial correlation, which does not exist. If it does exist, it has not been proved.

Wonderful, imaginative theories in their own way, but complete houses of cards. To me there is no logic in arguing back and forth about small astronomical references and inferred meanings, as if they have any impact whatsoever on the eventual validity of these theories which all – all - fall long before this, at the first hurdle.

When an entire premise is flawed, any advanced debate over minutae is simply wallpapering over the fundamental cracks with decorative historical and astronomical detail.
Subject Author Posted

Genesis of a theory

Robert Bauval July 13, 2007 12:41AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Robert Bauval July 13, 2007 01:01AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Joe_S July 13, 2007 02:43AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Ken B July 13, 2007 06:05AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Joe_S July 14, 2007 02:17PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Greg Reeder July 14, 2007 02:39PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Joe_S July 16, 2007 03:41PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Ken B July 14, 2007 03:58PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Robert Bauval July 14, 2007 04:38PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Hermione July 15, 2007 09:29AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Joe_S July 16, 2007 04:26PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Greg Reeder July 14, 2007 04:39PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Joe_S July 16, 2007 04:23PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Anthony July 16, 2007 04:30PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Dave L July 13, 2007 05:26AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Ronald July 13, 2007 06:21AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Ken B July 13, 2007 06:37AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Dave L July 13, 2007 06:50AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Robert Bauval July 13, 2007 01:04PM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Thadd July 14, 2007 12:45AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Robert Bauval July 14, 2007 01:05AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Scott Creighton July 13, 2007 10:38AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Ronald July 13, 2007 10:54AM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Alcibiades July 13, 2007 01:23PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Greg Reeder July 13, 2007 02:38PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Alcibiades July 13, 2007 03:02PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 12:44PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Greg Reeder July 14, 2007 01:40PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Robert Bauval July 14, 2007 05:02PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Ken B July 14, 2007 05:17PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 07:12PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Anthony July 14, 2007 07:51PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 08:02PM

Oral Traditions for literate cultures?

Anthony July 14, 2007 08:37PM

Re: Oral Traditions for literate cultures?

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 08:51PM

Re: Oral Traditions for literate cultures?

Thadd July 14, 2007 10:50PM

Re: Oral Traditions for literate cultures?

Scott Creighton July 15, 2007 05:56AM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Ken B July 14, 2007 09:02PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 09:07PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Ken B July 14, 2007 09:22PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Thadd July 14, 2007 10:52PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Warwick L Nixon July 15, 2007 12:47PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 07:58PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 15, 2007 02:43PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 13, 2007 03:43PM

Fact versus theory

Anthony July 13, 2007 03:46PM

Re: Fact versus theory

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 06:04AM

Re: Fact versus theory

Thadd July 14, 2007 08:05AM

Re: Fact versus theory

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 09:33AM

Re: Fact versus theory

Thadd July 14, 2007 10:25AM

Re: Fact versus theory

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 10:35AM

"Soft science"

Anthony July 14, 2007 11:12AM

Re: Fact versus theory

Thadd July 14, 2007 10:53PM

Re: Fact versus theory

Anthony July 14, 2007 10:21AM

Re: Fact versus theory

cladking July 14, 2007 06:02PM

Re: Fact versus theory

Thadd July 14, 2007 10:56PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Alcibiades July 13, 2007 04:03PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 13, 2007 04:34PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Anthony July 13, 2007 05:05PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 12:38PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

lobo-hotei July 14, 2007 12:50PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 01:21PM

Flawed logic

Anthony July 14, 2007 12:53PM

Re: Flawed logic

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 01:03PM

Re: Flawed logic

Anthony July 14, 2007 01:12PM

Re: Flawed logic

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 01:28PM

Re: Flawed logic

lobo-hotei July 14, 2007 02:36PM

If the Boot Fits...

Scott Creighton July 16, 2007 12:55PM

Re: If the Boot Fits...

lobo-hotei July 16, 2007 04:55PM

Re: If the Boot Fits...

Scott Creighton July 16, 2007 05:54PM

Moderation Note!

Katherine Reece July 16, 2007 05:58PM

Re: Flawed logic

Alcibiades July 14, 2007 01:54PM

Re: Flawed logic

Anthony July 14, 2007 08:50PM

Re: Flawed logic

Alcibiades July 15, 2007 01:53PM

Re: Flawed logic

Anthony July 15, 2007 02:05PM

Re: Flawed logic

Alcibiades July 15, 2007 03:57PM

Re: Flawed logic

Jammer July 16, 2007 06:57AM

Re: Flawed logic

Anthony July 16, 2007 08:46AM

Re: Flawed logic

Warwick L Nixon July 16, 2007 10:58AM

Unanswered Questions

Scott Creighton July 16, 2007 01:45PM

Questions answered

Anthony July 16, 2007 02:40PM

Questions Still Unanswered

Scott Creighton July 16, 2007 06:19PM

Moderation note ... end of subthread

Katherine Reece July 16, 2007 06:29PM

Re: Questions Still Unanswered

Anthony July 16, 2007 06:32PM

Re: Flawed logic

Thadd July 14, 2007 11:00PM

**Moderation note**

Hermione July 14, 2007 02:40PM

Apologies

Scott Creighton July 14, 2007 07:14PM

Re: Genesis of a theory - the very point never proved

Thadd July 14, 2007 12:47AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Warwick L Nixon July 13, 2007 10:59AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

Hermione July 13, 2007 11:53AM

Re: Genesis of a theory

cladking July 13, 2007 05:40PM

Death of a theory

Anthony July 13, 2007 12:50PM

Addendum

Anthony July 13, 2007 02:44PM

Moderation Note

Katherine Reece July 17, 2007 05:32PM



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