Katherine Griffis-Greenberg Wrote:
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> Rick Baudé Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > iirc Wasn't it the Good Dr. Hawass who
> "suddenly"
> > had an emergency DNA test performed on the
> mummy
> > that Fletcher said was "Nefertiti" only to
> prove
> > that the mummy was a male and therefore
> excluded
> > as a candidate for Nefertiti?
>
> The PCR DNA test is used to determine sex and is a
> fairly simple test, requiring minimal tissue for
> analysis. If you read the test results (PDF), you
> will see how little tissue was used (though not
> clear from where this tissue was extracted), and
> that it was done at the Specialised Genetics
> Centre at Ain Shams University in Egypt. So, that
> sort of test is possible, and I know nothing about
> it being an "emergency" test, BTW.

I was being sarcastic calling it an "emergency" test. In this case the "emergency" was to torpedo Fletcher's assertion that the mummy was Nefertiti's.
>
> mtDNA, on the other hand, requires much more
> tissue and different type of testing, and usually
> must have other samples to compare it to to
> establish a maternal genetic line.

I never said anything about mtDNA. I'm talking about nuclear DNA, which appears to have been extracted since as far as I know that's the only kind that can be used for the PCR.
>
> As I noted, we have very few known royal females
> of which we can be sure of their relation from one
> king to another. If Tiye is the Elder Lady, for
> example, her mtDNA would only be a direct match
> for Tutankhamun for certain, for example, since
> she introduces new mtDNA into the royal line by
> marriage to Amenhotep III. As she has always been
> known to be the queen of Amenhotep III, her
> lineage as ancestor to Tutankhamun is not in
> dispute.
>
> If Tiye's mtDNA is related to the KV 55 remains,
> this could mean several things: the KV 55 remains
> are a) Akhenaten, b) or Smenkhkare, or c) another
> prince of her union to Amenhotep III, such as
> Crown Prince Thutmose, or perhaps younger princes
> of which we know nothing.* All are possibilities,
> and so, we're no better off than we were before.
>
But we'll never know unless we perform the tests. On the contrary we'll have their DNA and mtDNA which will give us insights into their genetic backgrounds something we don't have now.
>
> If Tiye's mtDNA line is tied to the Younger Lady
> mummy, for example, this could mean that the mummy
> is one of her daughters, or her granddaughters
> (via Akhenaten). If the mtDNA doesn't match, it
> could be any number of secondary queens of
> Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, Smenkhkare, Tutankhamun,
> or even Ay or Horemheb - but in any case, it won't
> tell us who the "Younger Lady" actually is. I
> agree that it may be significant that the KV 35
> mummies are together - but then again, since they
> are obviously reburials from other locations,
> perhaps not.

But one more time, a couple of genetic tests will clear all of this up, or at least reduce the possibilities or eliminate a lot of speculations. So I guess we should just let that new 5 million dollar lab sit idle?
>
> I tend to think that this reliance on genetic
> testing "clearing everything up" is something of a
> tease which may lead nowhere.

And then again it might clear everything up. It's like standing before Tut's tomb and refusing to open it, because we can seee where it was opened and resealed therefore based on previous experience we know the tomb has been robbed and there is no need to go any further.

I suspect we will
> still be debating which mummy is who even IF an
> mtDNA line could be established. All one has to
> do is look at Dodson's book on royal families to
> see we have myriad amounts of princes and
> princesses, who could easily be connected with
> certain kings/queens, and still not be the king or
> queen one hopes it to be.
>
> Something to think about.

Which is why you do full blood tests, mtDNA, nuclear DNA if you can't establish who is related who, you can at least eliminate candidates. In fact we might find out that they aren't related to anybody, which would mean that there was a lot of hanky panky going on in AE
>
> * On the issue of unknown royal sons of the 18th
> Dynasty, see
>
> Dodson, A. 1990. Crown prince Djhutmose and the
> royal sons of the Eighteenth Dynasty. JEA 76:
> 87-96.
>
> Other Reference:
>
> Dodson, A. and D. Hilton. 2004. The Complete Royal
> Families of Ancient Egypt. London: Thames and
> Hudson.
>

the only dead horse I see being beaten is the same old arguments against DNA testing
> HTH.
>
> Katherine Griffis-Greenberg
>
> Oriental Institute
> Oriental Studies Doctoral Program
> Oxford University
> Oxford, United Kingdom
>
>