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May 9, 2024, 1:24 am UTC    
June 01, 2005 04:12PM
Bernard

As I explained earlier, I am very much a layman on this subject so I am sure you will understand my skipping the technical aspects of your interesting and informative post.

You write, “… it is NOT teleological l- it does not have an ultimate end in mind.”

Science does indeed hate the notion of teleology, particularly when it comes to Evolution, but I see this as solely due to the necessarily restrictive nature of the Scientific Method. Science cannot disprove that Evolution is purposeful. Equally, I.D. cannot prove that it is. As I said before, when it comes to the question of Darwinism or I.D. (or, as I favour, a mix of the two) the jury is still out. IMO it just happens that a lot of people have already made up their mind about what the jury’s verdict will be, but I see nothing wrong with that.

You write, “If a real designer were planning life he (she, it?) would never have done it in such an inefficient way. For example, humans are bipedal (i.e. walk upright) to enable to do so our spinal column is bent in a curious shape and BTW has condemned us to be very susceptible to lower back pain. Any designer should have done better.”
You later continue, “people like Behe, Dembski, and Phillip Johnson make clear that the only acceptable "designer" is God (and the Christian God to boot) -- no superior aliens need apply for the post.”

But is this not simply a case of people anthropomorphising this Intelligence(and unnecessarily so, IMO)? The use of the term ‘designer’ implies an entity with human or human-like intelligence. But why does it have to be such? Is it not possible that this intelligence is some nebulous part of, say, the Earth’s biosphere? Rather like human intelligence is a phenomenon produced by a mass of atoms, compounds, etc. arranged in a particular way – i.e. our brain. IIRC, a British mathematician has mooted that when electronic circuits get down to a certain microscopic level they will will become rudimentarily intelligent. Perhaps we would all fair better if we were to let I.D. stand for Intelligent Darwinism in preference to Intelligent Designer.
BTW, and on a lighter note, if our here hypothetical Intelligent Designer were human-like, I could happily point out that even we very clever humans design things that turn out to be imperfect… As they used to say, “Contrary to legend, even a Rolls Royce breaks down.”

To close, I again thank you for your interesting and informative feedback. I value your not simply dismissing my posts on the grounds that they were written by a layman with a limited knowledge of Evolution and only a tentative view on the subject of I.D. I’m sure I am not the only person here to gain some better understanding of this complex subject from your erudite responses.
If knowing this is of any value to you, your posts have gotten me sufficiently interested in the "modern synthesis" to want to some when have a look at Richard Dawkins’s The Ancestor's Tale.
Meantime, I shall continue to think that the process of Evolution incorporates something more than mechanical, something intelligent.

MJT
Subject Author Posted

article on ID

bernard May 27, 2005 03:02PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 03:44PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 04:16PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 04:18PM

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Dave L May 27, 2005 04:35PM

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Joanne May 27, 2005 04:58PM

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Dave L May 27, 2005 05:07PM

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wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 05:11PM

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Dave L May 27, 2005 05:34PM

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Joanne May 27, 2005 05:51PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 06:12PM

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Joanne May 27, 2005 06:25PM

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wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 06:32PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 08:18PM

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wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 12:36AM

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Joanne May 28, 2005 06:57AM

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wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 12:18PM

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Dave L May 28, 2005 10:29AM

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M.J.Thomas May 28, 2005 06:07AM

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Joanne May 28, 2005 07:03AM

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M.J.Thomas May 28, 2005 05:58PM

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bernard May 28, 2005 06:41PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 10:43PM

They have.

Dave L May 28, 2005 06:41PM

Re: They have.

M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 06:36PM

Re: They have.

Dave L May 31, 2005 06:41PM

Re: They have.

wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 07:05PM

Re: They have.

Dave L May 31, 2005 07:29PM

Re: They have.

wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 08:25PM

Re: They have.

M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 08:05PM

Re: They have.

bernard May 31, 2005 08:44PM

Re: They have.

wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 09:54PM

Re: They have.

Tommi Huhtamaki May 31, 2005 10:28PM

Re: They have.

wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 12:01AM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 10:16PM

Re: article on ID

Mercury Rapids May 29, 2005 11:25AM

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Ritva Kurittu May 29, 2005 03:03AM

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Joanne May 29, 2005 11:03AM

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wirelessguru1 May 29, 2005 01:53PM

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M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 06:27PM

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Dave L May 31, 2005 07:40PM

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wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 08:42PM

Re: article on ID

lobo-hotei June 01, 2005 09:51AM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 11:58AM

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lobo-hotei June 01, 2005 12:21PM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 12:51PM

Re: article on ID

lobo-hotei June 01, 2005 01:23PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 03:16PM

Re: article on ID

bernard June 01, 2005 01:08PM

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Dave L June 01, 2005 10:08AM

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M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 08:47PM

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Dave L May 31, 2005 09:16PM

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wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 09:32PM

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Dave L June 01, 2005 06:53AM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 11:34AM

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bernard May 31, 2005 08:23PM

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wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 10:08PM

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M.J.Thomas June 01, 2005 04:12PM

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bernard June 02, 2005 12:34AM

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wirelessguru1 June 02, 2005 10:57AM

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M.J.Thomas June 02, 2005 05:23PM

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bernard June 02, 2005 06:20PM

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M.J.Thomas June 03, 2005 06:35AM

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Pete Clarke June 03, 2005 06:42AM

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M.J.Thomas June 03, 2005 08:35AM

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wirelessguru1 June 02, 2005 06:52PM

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M.J.Thomas June 03, 2005 08:32AM

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wirelessguru1 June 03, 2005 11:43AM

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M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 07:03PM

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Dave L May 31, 2005 07:44PM

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wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 09:38PM

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Dave L June 01, 2005 08:42AM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 12:13PM

Mod request

lobo-hotei June 01, 2005 12:24PM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 12:55PM

Re: Mod request

lobo-hotei June 01, 2005 01:27PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne June 01, 2005 07:55AM

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wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 12:34PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne June 01, 2005 03:12PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 June 01, 2005 03:41PM

One fine day....

Dave L May 28, 2005 10:26AM

Re: One fine day....

wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 12:01PM

Re: One fine day....

M.J.Thomas May 28, 2005 06:12PM

Re: One fine day....

Dave L May 28, 2005 06:47PM

Re: One fine day....

wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 10:25PM

Re: One fine day....

Dave L May 30, 2005 02:34AM

Re: One fine day....

wirelessguru1 May 30, 2005 02:53AM

Mod note

Mercury Rapids May 30, 2005 04:38AM

Re: One fine day....

wirelessguru1 May 28, 2005 10:21PM

Re: One fine day....

M.J.Thomas May 31, 2005 07:10PM

Re: One fine day....

wirelessguru1 May 31, 2005 10:20PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 06:27PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 06:48PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 07:25PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 04:25PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 04:38PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 04:55PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 04:15PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 04:23PM

Re: article on ID

Dave L May 27, 2005 04:40PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 04:57PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 04:59PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 05:09PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 05:48PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 06:34PM

Re: article on ID

Joanne May 27, 2005 06:42PM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 May 27, 2005 07:28PM

Re: article on ID

M.J.Thomas June 01, 2005 04:57PM

Re: article on ID

bernard June 01, 2005 05:26PM

Re: article on ID

M.J.Thomas June 04, 2005 07:44AM

Re: article on ID

wirelessguru1 June 04, 2005 12:14PM



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