Doug Weller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure it was Europeans who adopted the word for
> themselves.
>
> I'm interested because of Ken Lonewolf's claims
> for a Shawnee Chief called "White Madoc".
>
>
> "Our last chief in the late 1700's was named White
> Madoc. This is documented on land deeds when he
> sold our village lands to the white settlers. Our
> village was called White Plains."
>
> Doug Weller

Doug, following the link & reading "Ken Lonewolf's" claims was..... instructive, shall we say.

The man sounded like a total flake, inventing or distorting so many points of "history" (physical appearance of Shawnee, Lenni Lenape going from America TO Mongolia & back, Lenni Lenape saying they'd crossed sea ice "along with buffalo", some Shawnee coming from South America, etc), that it's obvious he has no credibility whatsoever.

But I went ahead & ran searches on him anyway. He's a moderately prolific poster.

First off, his name isn't Ken Lonewolf.... he's a guy named Ken Long. And from his own claims it's obvious that he is mostly White by ancestry (admits to a fullblooded White father, talks about a mixed blood maternal ancestry that is absolutely FULL of Whites, both regular flavor & "adopted by Indian" type..... and a maternal cousin of his identifies himself as being "maybe 1/64 Indian at most". The one photo I could locate "suggests" that he is VERY pale & has typical White features.... true, it was a bit hard to tell at first under a full coat of facial paint, but the facial features still come through, you can see his hair color, and the exposed skin under his leggings was close to a fish belly white).

Nor was I able to find ANY indication that he was connected to any legally recognized Shawnee group, and he hangs out with a NON-RECOGNIZED agglomeration of urban Indians in Charlotte, NC. I couldn't find ANY posts he'd made on INDIAN forums.... but plenty where he's only talking to White people without a clue about Indian history or culture (& wouldn't know a fake if it had "made in Japan" stamped on it's backside). The closest he comes is those forums dealing with the Madoc legend.

Culturally, on the one hand he DOES go around wearing full Shawnee regalia at the drop of a hat (admixed with Scottish stuff)..... but the fact that he does this at family reunions of various distant WHITE relatives suggests he's more into the shock factor than valuing it as part of his heritage. The fact that he doesn't mention any association with genuine Indians, and spends more time bragging about famous White ancestors than anything else (& that virtually the only Indian ancestors he mentions are prominant names) is also suggestive.

He certainly doesn't have much grasp of logic.... he cites an old smallpox epidemic that affected his ancestors & then claims that this means he & his two daughters are immune to smallpox (reality check: not all "survivors" had genetic immunity, some simply didn't catch it. And genetic immunity wasn't that simple, children of two parents who'd caught but survived smallpox were NOT necessarily more likely to end up immune, CERTAINLY their distant g.g.g.g.g.something grandchildren who were only minimally descended from them won't be likely to have any genetic immunity they possessed. Ken & his kids are NOT likely immune to smallpox, and if they are, it's because of their predominant WHITE blood... or the vaccination they got as children). Similarly, he claims he was DNA tested IN WALES "a long time ago" & matched Welsh DNA, and that this means Prince Madoc must be an ancestor of his (whassamatta, doesn't he realize how many REAL Welsh immigrants came to post-Columbian America & mixed with Indians?).

My opinion on him? I think he's a rather thin blooded non-federally recognized Indian-descendant who WASN'T raised Indian, but who "became" Indian back during the hippie era when it was trendy by walking the walk & talking the talk (mostly around folk who didn't know whether it was real or not), and who has spun fragmentary family stories & historical/genealogical researches & pure imagination into a fantasy version of history.

Trying a little back alley psychology, I'd guess that he's inventing "ancient White Indians" & "pre-Columbian mixed blood Indians" as a way of reassuring himself that he IS validly Indian despite not looking it.... I've met people like that before, part-Indians who'd say that Cherokee or Ojibway (or whatever) commonly were redheaded or had lots of facial/body hair ("like them") in pre-COlumbian times.... so that their OWN appearance didn't mean they were White.

BTW, I also ran searches on "White Madoc".... zilch except for what he's saying, & folk who seem to be quoting him. No luck on that village sale, either. I think there is not even a shred of truth to ANY of it.

Kenuchelover