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| September 11, 2001 02:09AM |
<HTML>Sandy J. Perkins wrote:
>
>Well, I'd say it would take anyome some time to answer
>Archae's 30 or so issues and then Frank.
>In the meantime, most posts on this message board show that
>nobody seems to be reading or understanding the original
>questions answered. I expect more of the same no matter how
>many are answered. You can lead a horse...
>Still, Dunn's ideas have a part in this discussion. To put it
>in a nutshell, we have Lehner admitting based on older
>studies that hieroglyphs in granite were cut through with a
>single pass of a tool.
Where does Lehner admit this? Please cite a primary reference of Lehner's where he states this "single pass" claim....
Apparently you are getting this from Miss. Morris's post, who originally incorrectly attributed this statement to me paraphrasing Lehner, or you are getting from Mr. Dunn's post on GHMB, as Miss Morris originally did.
Here is Mr. Dunn's quote (<a href=" [www.grahamhancock.com]
:
"... In his documentary Obelisk I, Lehner passionately states that he is convinced that hieroglyphs and reliefs, the attributes of which Petrie marveled at because of their fine cross sections, measuring a mere .100 inch, indicating that the tool that created them had to have ploughed through the granite in a single pass, were actually created by bashing the granite with dolerite pounders."
I suspect the "single pass" claim is a construct of Mr. Dunn's based loosely on Petrie (1883) in which 2 artifacts are described... not a statement of Lehner's.
Petrie (1883) states:
"That the Egyptians were acquainted with a cutting jewel far harder than quartz, and that they used this jewel as a sharp pointed graver, is put beyond doubt by the diorite bowls with inscriptions of the
fourth dynasty, of which I found fragments at Gizeh; as well as the scratches on polished granite of Ptolemaic age at San. The hieroglyphs are incised, with a very free-cutting point; they are not
scraped or ground out, but are ploughed through the diorite, with rough edges to the line. As the lines are only 1/150 inch wide (the figures being about .2 long), it is evidence that the cutting point
must have been much harder than quartz; and tough enough not to splinter when so fine an edge was being employed, probably only 1/200 inch wide. Parallel lines are graved only 1/30 inch apart from
centre to centre."
The granite example is of Ptolemaic age so we can rule that out since they would have had a source of corundum at this time(similar in hardness to tungsten carbide), and the Old Kingdom artifacts are of diorite, which Lucas and Harris (1963) more correctly identify as being made of anorthosite. This rock would contain very little if any quartz,. and a quartz scribing tool either as a crystal point or a shard of flint will scratch this rock since all of its minerals are less hard than quartz. by at least about 20%..
As demonstrated by Stocks (2001) quartz grains can cut striation is the surface of granite while under the pressures exerted in his granite slabbing experiment. Granite contains quartz as a primary mineral, anorthosite does not.
>Archae didn't answer this by saying 36
>hours of work made a granite head.
Why should I answer a false postulate that Miss Morris has constructed. My answer stands since you cannot supply a primary archeological reference to support this "single pass" claim for any granite object older than the Ptolemaic age.
>Granite cutting is slow with modern tools.
Not really... Quartz, the hardest mineral in granite, is less than about 11% the hardness of natural diamond.
>There are two logical solutions. One,
>machine tools; two, uncured granite. Do you have another way?
First give us the reference to an Old Kingdom item made in granite that anyone claims was cut in a single pass...
Archae Solenhofen (solenhofen@hotmail.com)
Ref's
Petrie, W.M.F. (1883) The pyramids and temples of Gizeh. Field and Taer. London, 250 p.
Stocks, D.A. (2001) Testing Ancient Egyptian Granite-Working Methods in Aswan. Upper Egypt, Antiquity, 75, 89-94.
>If yes, I'd sure love to hear it because it would be a breath
>of fresh air.
> Sandy</HTML>
>
>Well, I'd say it would take anyome some time to answer
>Archae's 30 or so issues and then Frank.
>In the meantime, most posts on this message board show that
>nobody seems to be reading or understanding the original
>questions answered. I expect more of the same no matter how
>many are answered. You can lead a horse...
>Still, Dunn's ideas have a part in this discussion. To put it
>in a nutshell, we have Lehner admitting based on older
>studies that hieroglyphs in granite were cut through with a
>single pass of a tool.
Where does Lehner admit this? Please cite a primary reference of Lehner's where he states this "single pass" claim....
Apparently you are getting this from Miss. Morris's post, who originally incorrectly attributed this statement to me paraphrasing Lehner, or you are getting from Mr. Dunn's post on GHMB, as Miss Morris originally did.
Here is Mr. Dunn's quote (<a href=" [www.grahamhancock.com]
: "... In his documentary Obelisk I, Lehner passionately states that he is convinced that hieroglyphs and reliefs, the attributes of which Petrie marveled at because of their fine cross sections, measuring a mere .100 inch, indicating that the tool that created them had to have ploughed through the granite in a single pass, were actually created by bashing the granite with dolerite pounders."
I suspect the "single pass" claim is a construct of Mr. Dunn's based loosely on Petrie (1883) in which 2 artifacts are described... not a statement of Lehner's.
Petrie (1883) states:
"That the Egyptians were acquainted with a cutting jewel far harder than quartz, and that they used this jewel as a sharp pointed graver, is put beyond doubt by the diorite bowls with inscriptions of the
fourth dynasty, of which I found fragments at Gizeh; as well as the scratches on polished granite of Ptolemaic age at San. The hieroglyphs are incised, with a very free-cutting point; they are not
scraped or ground out, but are ploughed through the diorite, with rough edges to the line. As the lines are only 1/150 inch wide (the figures being about .2 long), it is evidence that the cutting point
must have been much harder than quartz; and tough enough not to splinter when so fine an edge was being employed, probably only 1/200 inch wide. Parallel lines are graved only 1/30 inch apart from
centre to centre."
The granite example is of Ptolemaic age so we can rule that out since they would have had a source of corundum at this time(similar in hardness to tungsten carbide), and the Old Kingdom artifacts are of diorite, which Lucas and Harris (1963) more correctly identify as being made of anorthosite. This rock would contain very little if any quartz,. and a quartz scribing tool either as a crystal point or a shard of flint will scratch this rock since all of its minerals are less hard than quartz. by at least about 20%..
As demonstrated by Stocks (2001) quartz grains can cut striation is the surface of granite while under the pressures exerted in his granite slabbing experiment. Granite contains quartz as a primary mineral, anorthosite does not.
>Archae didn't answer this by saying 36
>hours of work made a granite head.
Why should I answer a false postulate that Miss Morris has constructed. My answer stands since you cannot supply a primary archeological reference to support this "single pass" claim for any granite object older than the Ptolemaic age.
>Granite cutting is slow with modern tools.
Not really... Quartz, the hardest mineral in granite, is less than about 11% the hardness of natural diamond.
>There are two logical solutions. One,
>machine tools; two, uncured granite. Do you have another way?
First give us the reference to an Old Kingdom item made in granite that anyone claims was cut in a single pass...
Archae Solenhofen (solenhofen@hotmail.com)
Ref's
Petrie, W.M.F. (1883) The pyramids and temples of Gizeh. Field and Taer. London, 250 p.
Stocks, D.A. (2001) Testing Ancient Egyptian Granite-Working Methods in Aswan. Upper Egypt, Antiquity, 75, 89-94.
>If yes, I'd sure love to hear it because it would be a breath
>of fresh air.
> Sandy</HTML>
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