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April 29, 2024, 2:24 pm UTC    
July 10, 2020 02:12AM
Duncan Craig Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

...

> what of Camilla Townsend of Dartmouths
> contention? In her paper, "Burying the White
> Gods', she dismisses one of the four remaining
> Mayan codices as 'obviously having a Spanish
> influence because it speaks of Quetzalcoatl as
> being peace-loving, and a foe of human sacrifice
> because only Europeans are capable of producing
> such a culture hero.

A fuller text of what Camilla Townsend actually wrote:

Quote

The idea that Cortés was understood to be the god Quetzalcoatl returning from the east is also presented as fact in Book Twelve. Moctezuma sends gifts for different gods, to see which are most welcome to the newcomers, and then decides it is Quetzalcoatl who has come. There are numerous obvious problems with the story. First, Quetzalcoatl was not a particularly prominent god in the pantheon worshiped in Mexico’s great city. The one city in the empire where Quetzalcoatl was prominent, Cholula, was the only one to mount a concerted attack against Cortés as he made his way to the Aztec capital. Many aspects of the usual post-conquest description of Quetzalcoatl—that he was a peace-loving god who abhorred human sacrifice, for example—are obviously European mythological constructs, thus rendering the whole story somewhat suspect. Furthermore, in the Codex itself, when the earlier explorer Juan de Grijalva lands on the coast in 1518, he is taken to be Quetzalcoatl. So much for the explanation that Cortés happened to land in the right year, causing all the pieces to fall into place in the indigenous imagination.

Susan Gillespie has made a careful study of every sixteenth-century text (pre-and post-conquest) where Quetzalcoatl appears, and has proven that the story as we know it did not exist until Sahagún edited the Florentine Codex in the 1560s.

...

The elements did not all appear in the same narration until Sahagún’s Codex drew them together in the 1560s—although references to the more traditional god Quetzalcoatl and a separate mortal hero named Huemac are also peppered throughout the Codex. By that time, Spanish priests had been interacting with the locals for years, and new European elements had been incorporated almost seamlessly: as they were wont to do elsewhere, the priests had theorized that a Christian saint had previously visited the New World, and such a man makes his appearance in these stories as the hero Quetzalcoatl, now a peace-loving man who is driven into exile because of the people’s belief in the devil (the god Huitzilopochtli), and who foretells his own return.[31] In about 1570, the author of the “Anales de Cuauhtitlan” became the first Nahua to put all these elements together. To the generation of the 1570s, it seemed logical that their forebears had believed thus, for it provided a needed explanation why they had made such an ineffective defense.[32] [www.hallofmaat.com]

Recent comment on Burying by Matthew Wills - [daily.jstor.org]

A long archive (2004) post by the late Bernard Ortiz de Montellano - [www.hallofmaat.com]

Hermione
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2020 02:16AM by Hermione.
Subject Author Posted

Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 09, 2020 01:55AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

donald r raab July 09, 2020 10:18AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 09, 2020 11:59AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 09, 2020 05:16PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 09, 2020 07:09PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 10, 2020 08:24AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 10, 2020 06:18PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 11, 2020 04:06AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 12, 2020 12:22AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 12, 2020 07:45AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 12, 2020 11:10AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 12, 2020 03:31PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 09, 2020 06:46PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 09, 2020 07:51PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 10, 2020 02:12AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 10, 2020 09:04PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 11, 2020 04:26AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 11, 2020 11:44PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 10, 2020 11:30PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 11, 2020 03:43AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 10, 2020 09:57AM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Rick Baudé July 10, 2020 12:38PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 10, 2020 08:42PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Rick Baudé July 10, 2020 09:57PM

More to the story.

donald r raab July 10, 2020 10:05PM

Re: More to the story.

Lee Olsen July 31, 2020 10:24PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Lee Olsen July 12, 2020 12:46PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Duncan Craig July 14, 2020 10:37PM

Re: Ancient Americans made epic Pacific voyages

Hermione July 10, 2020 08:28AM

Did ancient Americans settle in Polynesia? The evidence doesn’t stack up

Hermione July 13, 2020 10:14AM

Polynesians made epic Pacific voyages... South Americans not so much

Katherine Reece July 13, 2020 11:55AM



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