I mean this is almost a waste, but here it goes anyway.

First off lets stick to specifics and not ramble.

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Well, broko, obviously the poeple referred to here are a bright yellow-red

Irrelevant rhetorical commentary strawman with no relevance to the topic.

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And get off The term km.t rmT. No one needs to explain it, because it does not occur anywhere.

Why get off of it? You said that it does not occur anywhere. Yet plain and simple it occurs on the WB p 127. It shows the sign for kmt followed by the sign for people, "rmt". Never mind the english translation, the POINT was that you said "kmt[rmt] does not occur anywhere in Egyptian texts". I have POSTED such a text myself SHOWING this. This whole sub thread of allegations and circular arguments makes me wonder why people dont read threads before REHASHING the same stuff over and over.

See here for an Egyptian text with Kmt[rmt]:

[www.hallofmaat.com]

Now, unless you are going to claim that kmt followed by rmt is not kmt[rmt] or that there is some OTHER grammatical logic that renders it as something else or that this text is also fake, then this particular case is closed.

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The alleged WB reference (5:127) is a fake, posted by someone who does not understand how to read glyphs or with a deliberate intent to deceive, in my view the latter, since all he had to do was look at the WB pages to see that his assertion was false.

If it is fake then why did you not point that out to Legeonas when he posted it? I mean if it is fake then that would mean that NONE of it is valid. Therefore, that means any translations YOU have done of it and any conclusions made in this thread based on it are ALSO invalid... right? Point being, that this is another blatantly wrong statement that defies logic.

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Enough has been posted to show that Egyptian adjectives follow their nouns as a general matter, so the term would make no grammatical or syntactical sense at all.

Which again is incorrect, as a determinative does NOT follow that convention in ancient Egyptian grammar. People is NOT a noun, it is a determinative. Determinatives DO NOT follow the above convention as they occur at the END of the word FOLLOWING the adjectives/nouns that they modify.

See here:

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The above list is from Gardiner's Egyptian Grammar, with minor changes. These are many of the most popular determinative signs (signs which gave a clue to the meaning of the word). A determinative (usually just one of them but sometimes two or three) appears at the end of the word. The beginning of the word is made up of phonetic signs (alphabetic signs or signs specifying two or more sounds).

[www.jimloy.com]

Therefore, in this case, kmt [rmt] is absolutely the CORRECT Egyptian grammar.


As for what it means, that has also been covered. It means BOTH.

If you want to take the ACTUAL symbol for black and say it is a drawing of the soil at the banks of the nile river, representing the noun or adjective black, then fine, it means black soil. However, keep in mind, that everyone does not believe it is a drawing of nile dirt, some say it is charcoal. But anyway, continuing with a heap of nile soil representing black, then a heap of black soil followed by people still means literally "people of the black soil". This has MULTIPLE MEANINGS

1). It means that the people depend on the nile silt and inundation for their livelihood.
2). It means that the Nile soil is a powerful symbol of blackness.
3). It means that blackness is a symbol of strength and vitality.
4). It means that the people are created FROM the black soil and are literally OF it.
5). It means that the god Osiris in black skin symbolizes fertility, nourishment and regeneration.
6) It means that Khnum from Aswan or "Nubia" fashions the bodies of the people from the black clay of the Nile.
7) It means that Khnum also fashions the body of Osiris from the same soil in the underworld.
8) It means that the body of the king RETURNS to the black soil at death and becomes osiris the regenerative power of the black soil/earth.
9) It means that the king is the living symbol of sustenance and the power of the inundation.
10) The king keeps the life giving waters flowing by proper maintance of the yearly cycles of planting and harvesting.
11) It means that the king becomes a symbol of regeneration, LIKE Osiris and nourishes the people AND the land.
12) The king is the force that sweeps down the valley and puts the enemies of order and renewal on the run.
13) It makes black a powerful symbol and concept that has many meanings not just the soil.
14) It makes black the color of the soil AND a reference to the people, as people made from the soil.
15) It makes the people the living spirit and animated body of the symbolic power of the black soil itself.

Therefore, people, land, strength, vitality, renewal and nourishment are ALL implied by kmt as the "black soil" or "black nation" or just black.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2007 09:29PM by Doug M.