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May 19, 2024, 9:31 pm UTC    
September 17, 2004 01:42PM
Hi Jeff

Jeff van Hout Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> First of all she will have to show "how a gene
> might increase blood oxygen levels, or how high
> oxygen levels in the mother might help her
> children survive".
>


I'm not sure that that is neccessary. We have no idea how genes lead to function in the majority of cases. More significant to me is the fact that they have assumed;

1) Degree of light light absorbed in fingers is due purely to the amount of oxygen in blood. I guess the paper itself would have dealt with this but I would have expected things like maybe amount of iron in the haemoglobin to be a factor both in amount of oxygen carried in the blood and the absorbtion of light.

2) How do you rule out "non-genetic" factors unless you find the gene itself ? Its an assumption.

3) They set out in the first place to "catch the population there in the act of adapting to the low levels of oxygen". From the news article its difficult to see how they did enough to prove they didn't find what they were looking for just because they wanted to find it.


>
> If evolution was at work, shouldn't the majority
> of the population already have this gene, in stead
> of just 10%?
> (How long is this population present at those high
> altitudes?)
>

No I would disagree with that. Evolution is incredibly slow in general and there could be other factors that lead to survival at low oxygen levels such as a different metabolism rate or a taste for iron rich foods etc etc. If you think about it a new gene that made it easier to absord oxygen from rarer air is not a reason for those with that advanatage to completely replace those without it. That would require some other factor such as a famine which really challenged the survival of the population.


>
> Can she prove that in the past the percentage of
> the population having this gene was significantly
> lower?
>


A good point and related to the fact she has not actually found a specific gene and has therefore not compared it with other populations. Still what she has done is shown that families who absorb light in a certain way through their fingers have less young deaths. It is quite possible that this is genetic and if so it would cause more to survive with this genetic make-up and therefore would be "evolution in action". Without reading her actual paper rather than the news article I'm not sure its possible to really decide how much credibility her theory has.

Subject Author Posted

Tibetans show 'evolution in action'

Simon September 17, 2004 05:55AM

Re: Tibetans show 'evolution in action'

Simon September 17, 2004 06:15AM

Re: Tibetans show 'evolution in action'

AWSX September 17, 2004 08:30AM

Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Jeff van Hout September 17, 2004 09:05AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 11:04AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

cicely September 17, 2004 12:07PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 01:53PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 02:17PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 02:56PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:01PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 03:07PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:10PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 03:19PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:21PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

darkuser September 19, 2004 09:08PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 19, 2004 10:24PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 03:13PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 03:20PM

edited by Doug????

darkuser September 19, 2004 09:10PM

Re: edited by Doug????

DougWeller September 19, 2004 11:34PM

Re: edited by Doug????

darkuser September 20, 2004 12:37PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

cicely September 17, 2004 03:01PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 01:50PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 02:16PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 02:58PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 03:02PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:05PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 03:16PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 03:25PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:27PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 03:30PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:38PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 03:43PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 04:02PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 04:07PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 04:10PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 04:29PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 04:38PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 05:08PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 05:54PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 06:02PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 06:07PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 06:31PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 06:39PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 06:56PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 08:33PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 09:01PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 09:47PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 10:10PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 10:20PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 10:33PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 10:49PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 10:59PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 11:20PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 18, 2004 02:16AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 04:21PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 03:48PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 03:51PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 04:22PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Anonymous User September 17, 2004 04:35PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 17, 2004 04:37PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:03PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 12:08PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 01:42PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:17PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 17, 2004 03:21PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 17, 2004 03:24PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 18, 2004 06:53PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 18, 2004 07:06PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 19, 2004 08:43AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 19, 2004 12:55PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 19, 2004 01:06PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 19, 2004 01:33PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 19, 2004 03:04PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 19, 2004 05:19PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

cicely September 18, 2004 07:22PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 19, 2004 04:25PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 19, 2004 05:17PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 19, 2004 05:22PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

John Wall September 19, 2004 06:00PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 19, 2004 06:20PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

John Wall September 19, 2004 06:27PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 19, 2004 07:53PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 19, 2004 08:32PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 19, 2004 09:34PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 19, 2004 10:02PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 19, 2004 10:30PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 01:23AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 20, 2004 01:56AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 11:37AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 20, 2004 11:27PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 01:39AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 21, 2004 02:25PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 06:59PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 20, 2004 03:19AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 20, 2004 08:42AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 20, 2004 09:07AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 20, 2004 09:45AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Pete Clarke September 20, 2004 10:17AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 20, 2004 10:28AM

PS Pete

Joanne September 20, 2004 10:41AM

Re: PS Pete

John Wall September 20, 2004 10:46AM

Re: PS Pete

Joanne September 20, 2004 12:05PM

Re: PS Pete

John Wall September 20, 2004 02:56PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Pete Clarke September 20, 2004 10:48AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Pete Clarke September 20, 2004 10:52AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 20, 2004 12:14PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 01:53PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Joanne September 20, 2004 04:01PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 05:12PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 01:41PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Pete Clarke September 20, 2004 09:20AM

Actually

Simon September 20, 2004 11:49AM

Re: Actually

bernard September 21, 2004 01:02AM

Re: Actually

Simon September 21, 2004 08:00AM

Re: Actually

bernard September 21, 2004 03:09PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 21, 2004 04:30PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 22, 2004 02:38PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 22, 2004 03:26PM

Re: Actually

wirelessguru1 September 22, 2004 05:59PM

hot smiley

Simon September 22, 2004 06:39PM

Re: hot smiley

wirelessguru1 September 22, 2004 06:50PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 22, 2004 06:34PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 22, 2004 07:54PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 27, 2004 03:21PM

Re: Actually

wirelessguru1 September 27, 2004 04:28PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 27, 2004 06:44PM

Re: Actually

wirelessguru1 September 27, 2004 07:08PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 11:15AM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 12:33PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 03:15PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 03:53PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 05:13PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 06:56PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 08:14PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 29, 2004 06:45AM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 11:34AM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 12:43PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 03:20PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 04:06PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 05:21PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 28, 2004 07:05PM

Re: Actually

bernard September 28, 2004 08:18PM

Re: Actually

Simon September 29, 2004 06:51AM

Re: Actually

bernard September 29, 2004 03:43PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 01:31PM

Pete II

Joanne September 20, 2004 04:11PM

Cause & Effect

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 06:14PM

Re: Pete II

bernard September 20, 2004 10:28PM

Re: Pete II

Joanne September 21, 2004 10:56AM

Re: Pete II

bernard September 21, 2004 01:54PM

Your posts with footnotes

Salsassin September 21, 2004 02:55PM

Re: Your posts with footnotes

bernard September 21, 2004 03:33PM

Re: Your posts with footnotes

Salsassin September 21, 2004 03:35PM

Re: Pete II

Joanne September 21, 2004 04:41PM

Re: Pete II

Pete Clarke September 24, 2004 03:02AM

Re: Pete II

Pete Clarke September 24, 2004 07:26AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 19, 2004 07:22PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 11:57AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 02:03PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 06:39PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 06:56PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 07:16PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 20, 2004 08:19PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 21, 2004 06:56AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 07:24AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 21, 2004 08:31AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 08:49AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 04:17PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 04:42PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 04:46PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 04:51PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 05:24PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 04:23PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 21, 2004 04:44PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 05:06PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 21, 2004 06:11PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 09:19PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 09:39PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 09:30PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 09:39PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 09:44PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 09:48PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 09:57PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 10:00PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 10:05PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 10:11PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 10:38PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 11:01PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Salsassin September 21, 2004 11:30PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 22, 2004 12:10PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 10:32PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

wirelessguru1 September 21, 2004 09:47PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bill barrington September 21, 2004 05:30PM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

bernard September 20, 2004 08:33PM

Missing the point ?

Simon September 21, 2004 06:40AM

Re: Does this show 'evolution in action'????

Simon September 20, 2004 12:03PM

Re: Tibetans show 'evolution in action'

bill barrington September 18, 2004 07:49AM



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