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May 16, 2024, 7:35 pm UTC    
March 18, 2012 02:42AM
I have rarely seen such a farrago of special pleading, circular reasoning, and overinterpretation. And you answer with such a flood of claims, many of them redundant, that it is hard to know where to start. So, just a few salient points.

"… Abraham’s favorite son was Ishmael. We know that, because Abraham pleads Ishmael’s case to YHWH, something that Abraham so obviously does not do for Isaac in the harrowing binding incident…. Ishmael was Abraham’s favorite son, which can be seen by comparing what Abraham is reported as saying at Genesis 17: 18 with what Abraham does not say at Genesis 21: 1-7 and in chapter 22 of Genesis."

In Genesis 17, Ishmael is Abraham’s only son, and Abraham doubts there will ever be another. It is not evidence that he favours Ishmael over Isaac, because Isaac is not born yet. In Chapter 22, God is testing Abraham by demanding the sacrifice of his beloved son - pleading Isaac’s case would mean failing the test. You’re reading into the story things that are not there.

"It’s more of the same in the next generation, where Esau is obviously Isaac’s favorite son, as he brings his father tasty game. Younger twin son Jacob only manages to get his father’s blessing by the dubious expedient of impersonating his older, favored twin brother!"

I’m familiar with the story; it’s hilarious, like much of the saga of Jacob the Trickster. So what event in Years 12-14 at Amarna does this vivid episode reflect, precisely?

"(snip)… The pattern is clear. The favorite son -- Thutmose, Ishmael, Esau and Joseph -- gets the shaft and properly so."

The biblical trope is irrelevant because - as many have pointed out to you - Thutmose was not passed over in Akhenaten’s favour. Thutmose died.

"…snip…Each of Abraham and Jacob represents the first Hebrew, and each of them shares many characteristics with Akhenaten. In particular, each of Akhenaten, Abraham and Jacob is a younger son, not his father’s favorite son, whose birth mother was his father’s original main wife #1, and who ends up being the winning son after all."

Let’s parse this:
Abraham: is mentioned first among the sons of Terah, so is more likely the eldest rather than the youngest; no data on who his father’s favourite son was; no data on his birth mother or her status.
Akhenaten: a younger son, who became eldest son when his brother died; no data on who his father’s favourite son was; both he and his brother were sons of the same “original main” wife.
Jacob: a younger son; not his father’s favourite; both he and his brother were sons of the same “original main” wife.

From this example of your reasoning, it looks to me like fancy footwork plus a fair amount of data-creation to try shoving Abraham and Akhenaten into Jacob’s mold. In fact, the same thing could be said of all your identifications of biblical with Amarna characters: you play mix’n’match with different traits at your own convenience, and you make traits up when you need to so that they will “match perfectly”.

"I do not think that Amenhotep III ever consummated a marriage with Tadukhepa. Tushratta refers to Amenhotep III as his “son-in-law” six months before Tadukhepa is ever sent to Egypt!...[snip]… Although Tushratta refers to Akhenaten as his “son-in-law”, I myself doubt that Akhenaten ever consummated that diplomatic marriage which had been forced upon him.

Not an important point, but I'm interested in how you like to have it both ways. So in your view, she was never really married to either of them?

"The teraphim are family statues, being the family gods. KJV uses the translation of “images”. They were tangible items, in the nature of statues, of family gods. Tushratta requests statues of himself and Tadukhepa for a family mausoleum. So in both cases, we’re talking about family statues."

I repeat, teraphim were cult objects, but there is no firm agreement on what form they took, nor if all teraphim were in the same form. Second, do you have a reference to back up your claim the statues were intended for a family mausoleum? Third, you’re committing the fallacy of equivocation, using “family statues” in two different senses.

“If I am “cherry-picking narrative motifs”, then please refer to a story in the Patriarchal narratives that, in your opinion, is not redolent of Years 12-14.”

I’m pretty sure, whatever story is brought up, that you will find some way of shoehorning it into your narrative. My example of no bride marrying first a father then a son was answered by bringing up Tamar, who (generations later) did the reverse. Do you actually consider that a hit? Your methodology makes your results unfalsifiable - and therefore, useless. But hey, show us your mettle. Lot’s wife. Jacob’s ladder.
Subject Author Posted

KV 21

Khazar-khum February 18, 2012 05:08AM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 18, 2012 11:29AM

Re: KV 21

Hermione February 18, 2012 11:31AM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Reece February 18, 2012 01:20PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 18, 2012 03:09PM

Re: KV 21

monika February 18, 2012 05:59PM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Reece February 18, 2012 07:00PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 18, 2012 08:31PM

Re: KV 21

monika February 19, 2012 09:40AM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg February 20, 2012 07:16AM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper February 20, 2012 09:48AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 20, 2012 02:26PM

KV 21

Jammer February 20, 2012 03:00PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 20, 2012 03:14PM

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Roxana Cooper February 20, 2012 07:43PM

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Khazar-khum February 20, 2012 11:54PM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Reece February 20, 2012 10:25PM

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Khazar-khum February 20, 2012 11:52PM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Reece February 21, 2012 01:04PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 21, 2012 03:44PM

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Roxana Cooper February 21, 2012 09:22AM

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monika February 21, 2012 04:13AM

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Khazar-khum February 21, 2012 10:59AM

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monika February 23, 2012 08:09AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 23, 2012 04:07PM

Re: KV 21

monika February 24, 2012 08:30AM

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Khazar-khum February 24, 2012 04:56PM

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monika February 25, 2012 06:50AM

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Khazar-khum February 25, 2012 07:48PM

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monika February 26, 2012 05:08AM

Re: KV 21

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg February 27, 2012 07:59PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 27, 2012 08:35PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 27, 2012 08:35PM

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monika February 29, 2012 09:18AM

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Katherine Griffis-Greenberg February 29, 2012 03:07PM

Re: KV 21

monika March 01, 2012 09:16AM

Re: KV 21

monika February 29, 2012 09:20AM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart February 29, 2012 12:36PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 29, 2012 03:20PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 29, 2012 04:11PM

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Khazar-khum February 29, 2012 05:15PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart February 29, 2012 05:29PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 29, 2012 05:52PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 29, 2012 09:02PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé February 29, 2012 09:14PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum February 29, 2012 09:00PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart February 29, 2012 09:44PM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 09:32AM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 09:30AM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 11:17AM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 01:16PM

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Khazar-khum March 01, 2012 11:07AM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 12:30PM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 01:19PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 02:40PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 01, 2012 03:52PM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 05:07PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 07:50PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 01, 2012 09:32PM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé March 01, 2012 09:59PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 10:28PM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 01, 2012 10:43PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 02, 2012 02:36AM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé March 02, 2012 08:21AM

Re: KV 21

Jim Stiinehart March 02, 2012 10:30AM

Re: KV 21

Rick Baudé March 02, 2012 11:05AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 02, 2012 11:20AM

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Roxana Cooper March 02, 2012 11:33AM

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Jim Stiinehart March 02, 2012 12:16PM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 03, 2012 11:36AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 04, 2012 08:10AM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 04, 2012 11:25AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 01, 2012 01:34PM

Re: KV 21

Roxana Cooper March 01, 2012 09:26AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 01, 2012 11:02AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 05, 2012 09:31AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 05, 2012 12:58PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 05, 2012 06:37PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Rick Baudé March 05, 2012 06:48PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 05, 2012 06:45PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 05, 2012 08:33PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 05, 2012 10:30PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 06, 2012 12:17AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 06, 2012 05:37AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 06, 2012 11:52AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 06, 2012 11:56AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 06, 2012 03:14PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 06, 2012 04:18PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 06, 2012 06:33PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 07, 2012 02:50PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 07, 2012 03:39PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 07, 2012 04:23PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 07, 2012 07:05PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 07, 2012 07:36PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jammer March 19, 2012 10:33AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 11:26AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 03:00PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 20, 2012 03:43PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 20, 2012 08:54PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2012 08:28AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 21, 2012 01:47PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 21, 2012 02:09PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 21, 2012 04:04PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 21, 2012 04:59PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 21, 2012 07:37PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 07, 2012 11:13AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Rick Baudé March 07, 2012 11:31AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 07, 2012 12:07PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jammer March 07, 2012 01:50PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 07, 2012 03:29PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 07, 2012 04:41PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 07, 2012 08:14PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 08, 2012 03:08AM

Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jammer March 10, 2012 08:04AM

Don't be shy, build your OWN!

Jammer March 10, 2012 08:15AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 10, 2012 09:56AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 10, 2012 10:51AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 10, 2012 05:38PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 10, 2012 06:39PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 10, 2012 10:21PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 11, 2012 04:05AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 11, 2012 08:48AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 01:55AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 12, 2012 09:23AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 10:30AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 12, 2012 12:54PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 02:46PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 12, 2012 02:49PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rick Baudé March 12, 2012 04:12PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 12, 2012 04:19PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 09:00PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 13, 2012 08:46AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 08:56PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 12, 2012 04:22PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 12, 2012 09:37PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 13, 2012 10:33AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 13, 2012 03:32PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rick Baudé March 13, 2012 03:39PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 13, 2012 07:06PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rick Baudé March 13, 2012 09:01PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 13, 2012 10:00PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 14, 2012 09:13AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rick Baudé March 14, 2012 11:54AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 14, 2012 12:25PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 14, 2012 01:52PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 14, 2012 09:48PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 14, 2012 08:22AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 13, 2012 04:43PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 13, 2012 10:54PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 14, 2012 10:08AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 14, 2012 01:38PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 14, 2012 01:57PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 15, 2012 03:04AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 15, 2012 07:18AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 15, 2012 11:12AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 15, 2012 01:16PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Sam March 15, 2012 01:46PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 15, 2012 03:53PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Pistol March 16, 2012 12:57AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 16, 2012 11:41AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 16, 2012 01:52PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 16, 2012 03:44PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 16, 2012 04:11PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 17, 2012 06:23AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 17, 2012 08:16AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 17, 2012 01:10PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rebby March 17, 2012 01:54PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 17, 2012 04:25PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rebby March 18, 2012 02:42AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 18, 2012 09:36AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rebby March 19, 2012 12:39AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 10:22AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 03:09PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rebby March 19, 2012 10:13PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 10:30PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rebby March 20, 2012 12:10AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 18, 2012 01:44PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Rick Baudé March 18, 2012 03:35PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 18, 2012 04:18PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 18, 2012 07:17PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 18, 2012 08:37PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 01:35AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jammer March 19, 2012 11:00AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 03:11PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 04:23PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 05:38PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 06:06PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 10:03PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 10:10PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 10:26PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 19, 2012 10:37PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 19, 2012 11:09PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 20, 2012 03:49PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 20, 2012 08:52PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 20, 2012 08:45AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 20, 2012 01:57PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jammer March 20, 2012 02:55PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 20, 2012 03:55PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 20, 2012 08:57PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 20, 2012 03:53PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 20, 2012 08:58PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2012 08:26AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 21, 2012 09:17AM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 21, 2012 01:53PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 21, 2012 03:26PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jammer March 13, 2012 12:06PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Jim Stiinehart March 13, 2012 01:32PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Khazar-khum March 13, 2012 03:36PM

Re: Trying to weave The First Hebrew out of odd-lot factoids

Roxana Cooper March 14, 2012 08:27AM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 07, 2012 07:13PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 07, 2012 07:37PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Jim Stiinehart March 07, 2012 10:01PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Roxana Cooper March 08, 2012 10:18AM

**Moderation note**

Hermione March 08, 2012 02:06PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

clem ciamarra March 06, 2012 01:38PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

Khazar-khum March 06, 2012 04:15PM

Re: KV 21 The First Hebrew

clem ciamarra March 06, 2012 07:20PM

KV 21

Jammer March 21, 2012 12:44PM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 21, 2012 01:55PM

Re: KV 21

monika March 22, 2012 09:42AM

Re: KV 21

Khazar-khum March 22, 2012 12:27PM

Re: KV 21

monika March 30, 2012 07:38AM

Re: KV 21

Hermione March 31, 2012 10:27AM

**Thread closure**

Hermione March 31, 2012 10:30AM



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