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May 6, 2024, 3:51 am UTC    
September 07, 2007 11:42AM
jhemmestad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm researching the living conditions of the
> Hebrew slaves in ancient Egypt, specifically
> during the Middle Kingdom, and I wondered if
> anyone could please share a bit of knowledge with
> me. I've learned that the conditions of the slaves
> in Egypt weren't bad (they could own property),
> and that they were mostly from conquered lands,
> but my question pertains mostly to the living
> conditions of the actual hard laborors who were
> slaves, and those whom were Hebrew.

Mention has been made elsewhere on this thread of the Merneptah Stele that refers to an entity named 'Israel' already in existence in circa 1200 BCE.

The Stele was discovered in the mortuary temple at Thebes by Flinders Petrie in 1896.

Here's how Petrie himself describes the significance of this find in his article, "Egypt and Israel" (The Contemporary Review, 1896, May, pp. 617-627):

Thus until this spring there has been no trace in Egypt to show that any descendants of Jacob ever existed. Had we no other material, we should never have suspected that any such people as the Jews were known in the ancient world, so far as the evidence of Egypt carries us (p. 618).

Compare Petrie's comment above with this extract from an article written 111 years later ...

From "Out of Egypt: The Archaeological Context of the Exodus" by James K. Hoffmeier (Biblical Archaeology Review, January/February 2007, Vol. 33, No. 1, pp. 30-41):

"[...] Despite over a century of archaeological excavations in Egypt, proof of the dramatic Exodus has not been found [...].

"There are several possible reasons for this absence of evidence. The first possibility is, as the Biblical minimalists suppose, that the Hebrews were never there.

"A second, more likely explanation, is that we have had unrealistic expectations as to what archaeology can deliver. After all, what evidence short of an inscription in a Proto-Canaanite script stating 'bricks made by Hebrew slaves' would be considered proof that the Israelites were in Egypt? Archaeology's ability to determine the ethnicity of a people in the archaeological record, especially of the Israelites at such an early period, is quite limited. Assuming the Israelites were in Egypt during Egypt's New Kingdom (c. 1540-1200 BC), what kind of pottery would they have used? What house plans would they have lived in? What sort of burial traditions did they practice? And would archaeologists be able to identify the burial of these early Israelites who ended up as slaves anyway? And how are all these things different from those of Canaanites or other Semitic-speaking peoples in Egypt at this time? [...]"
(p. 31).

"Because we cannot expect to find textual proof of the Israelites in Egypt, we must ask whether the Bible's report is plausible in light of secondary evidence provided by archaeology [...]" (p. 33).

**********

A related point ...

To the best of my knowledge, the Merneptah Stele is the only (undisputed) mention in the whole extant Egyptian record of 'Israel', 'Judah', or any of the kings of these respective kingdoms (not to mention 'Hebrews' or 'Israelites', of course) ... even during the historical period when they are clearly attested in other extra-biblical sources, such as the Assyrian annals etc.

If anyone has any information that indicates otherwise, I'd be very interested to hearing about it.

Damian


_______________

My dear sir, in this world it is not so easy to settle these plain things. I have ever found your plain things the knottiest of all.

- Moby-Dick by Herman Melville

________

'I am beginning to believe that nothing is quite so uncertain as facts.

- Edward S. Curtis

________

'We are coming now rather into the region of guesswork', said Dr Mortimer.
'Say, rather, into the region where we balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination, but we have always some material basis on which to start our speculation', [replied Holmes]
.

- The Hound of the Baskervilles by Arthur Conan Doyle

________

'It never does to be too sure, you know, in these matters. Coincidence killed the professor.'

- "Novel of the Black Seal" by Arthur Machen
Subject Author Posted

Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

jhemmestad August 29, 2007 03:55PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Byrd August 29, 2007 05:22PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller August 29, 2007 11:33PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Ritva Kurittu August 30, 2007 03:23AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Mihos September 26, 2007 07:46PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd October 01, 2007 10:48AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Hermione August 30, 2007 05:08AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller August 30, 2007 01:52PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper August 30, 2007 07:18PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller August 31, 2007 12:39AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper August 31, 2007 12:28PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 03, 2007 10:27PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 03, 2007 10:25PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Pacal August 31, 2007 08:27AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper August 31, 2007 12:32PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Byrd August 31, 2007 02:35PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 01, 2007 01:49PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 02, 2007 10:19AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Rick Baudé September 02, 2007 11:38AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 02, 2007 04:58PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 03, 2007 10:34PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 04, 2007 09:42AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 04, 2007 09:56AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 04, 2007 03:44PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 04, 2007 08:35PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 05, 2007 09:41AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 05, 2007 01:15PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

jhemmestad September 06, 2007 09:05AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Jammer September 06, 2007 11:00AM

Note ...

Hermione September 06, 2007 11:13AM

Re: Note ...

Jammer September 06, 2007 11:19AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 06, 2007 02:16PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

jhemmestad September 06, 2007 04:37PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 07, 2007 11:44AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 08, 2007 06:26PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 13, 2007 03:00PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2007 06:17PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 01, 2007 12:47PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 01, 2007 03:00PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 01, 2007 03:44PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 02, 2007 01:38AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 02, 2007 12:10PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Hermione September 02, 2007 12:32PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 02, 2007 02:11PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 03, 2007 04:07AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 03, 2007 01:03PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 04, 2007 11:12AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 04, 2007 03:31PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 05, 2007 09:14AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Pacal September 06, 2007 01:27PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 06, 2007 02:19PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 06, 2007 04:37PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 08, 2007 06:30PM

Also ...

Damian Walter September 02, 2007 12:42PM

Re: Also ...

Doug Weller September 02, 2007 02:21PM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 02, 2007 05:06PM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 03, 2007 10:39PM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 04, 2007 09:46AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 04, 2007 09:53AM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 04, 2007 11:36AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 04, 2007 08:37PM

Re: Also ...

Damian Walter September 05, 2007 09:03AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 05, 2007 01:19PM

Re: Also ...

Damian Walter September 05, 2007 04:26PM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 05, 2007 09:44AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 05, 2007 01:23PM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 05, 2007 02:25PM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 05, 2007 05:27PM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 06, 2007 09:57AM

Re: Also ...

Damian Walter September 06, 2007 02:19PM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 08, 2007 06:39PM

Re: Also ...

Pacal September 06, 2007 01:41PM

Re: Also ...

jhemmestad September 07, 2007 09:10AM

Re: Also ...

Hermione September 07, 2007 09:18AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 08, 2007 06:42PM

Re: Also ...

Pacal September 12, 2007 09:52AM

Re: Also ...

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2007 06:23PM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 17, 2007 07:42PM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 08, 2007 06:54PM

Re: Also ...

Pacal September 12, 2007 10:33AM

Re: Also ...

jhemmestad September 12, 2007 11:02AM

Note ...

Hermione September 12, 2007 11:16AM

Re: Also ...

Thadd September 17, 2007 07:52PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Roxana Cooper September 02, 2007 10:29AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 02, 2007 03:23PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug Weller September 02, 2007 03:43PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 07, 2007 11:47AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 03, 2007 10:24PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 07, 2007 11:54AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 07, 2007 11:42AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 07, 2007 02:46PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

jhemmestad September 08, 2007 05:11PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug M September 09, 2007 06:08AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Thadd September 09, 2007 08:23AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Doug M September 09, 2007 08:11PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Pete Clarke September 13, 2007 06:54AM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Damian Walter September 13, 2007 03:02PM

Re: Hebrews in Ancient Egypt

Mihos September 26, 2007 08:45PM



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