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May 21, 2024, 6:31 pm UTC    
Lee
April 12, 2005 10:26AM

Hi, Sue,

Yes, we read rafts of new critics, Brooks, Wellek and Warren, R.P. Blackmur and on and on, as well as earlier critics — the focus was on Boileau, Johnson and Dryden, Reynolds, with poor Shelley (rightly, I think) taken to the chopping block as a critic, not as a poet — though he did come in for some whacks there as well. Of course we also read all the so-called formalist criticism of the Chicago critics themselves.

As for being a comparativist, there are many senses in which I was and remain one as a thinker. I don’t want to discard any critical method that may yield something useful, including history and biography, nor did the formalists, necessarily; the Chicago method wasn’t merely “formal,” it was highly pluralistic. R.S. Crane, one of the founders, said ”we ought to have at our command, collectively at least, as many different critical methods as there are distinguishable major aspects in the construction, appreciation, and use of literary works." They did, however, have an appreciation for works of literature as verbal structures, with particular goals in mind. In that sense they were “Aristotelian,” or better, “Neo-Aristotelian.”

Elder Olson, the only one of the founding Chicago critics with whom I studied, explained it somewhat this way in his class on poetics. The work of art, in Aristotelian terms, is like an axe, i.e., it has a final, formal, material, and efficient cause because it is: (1) made for a particular purpose (2) in a particular shape (3) out of particular materials (4) by someone. By examining whether the maker chose wisely with respect to each of the remaining “causes,” we can tell whether the maker did a good job in creating the product, regardless of whether the product is an axe or poem, or a novel. We can thus say that a toolmaker who made an axe to cut trees with a blade of 22K gold and a friable ivory handle is not a good toolmaker; but one who made the same object with a different final cause might be a good one indeed. The same is true of a work of art. The poet who wants to induce you to feel a protagonist’s pain (and intentionality is a big concept in the Chicago school – the poet has an effect in mind and has to choose the right materials) should not write his poem in limericks; the poet who wants to satirize that pain may do exactly that. You know that a writer or poem has failed when you get mixed signals from the piece and the “materials” are not clearly or consistently chosen to meet the particular end. It’s that equivalent of finding an axe with a good steel blade and a plastic handle that would break if you tried to chop anything: what was the damned thing made for?

A corollary of the assumption that literary meaning is to be found in the (generic) intention of the text is that, like Aristotle, they subordinate the function of literary language to the larger structure of the work as a whole: "The words must be explained in terms of something else, not the poem in terms of the words; and further, a principle must be a principle of something other than itself; hence the words cannot be a principle of their own arrangements." I know this sounds rather cold. It wasn’t. These people were passionate about literature. I remember Olson asking someone what poems he particularly enjoyed and being told that they aren’t meant to be enjoyed: they’re meant to be analyzed. Olson was shocked.

I think what really characterized my teachers was a very strong impatience with sloppy, dogmatic, or merely skeptical thinking. Start with the notion that the work you are looking at stand alone, was made for a reason, and has something to say. No criticism can be universal. For that reason, criticism based on universal philosophic systems (Hegel, Freud, Marx, Sartre) was a special of distrust, though their most extensive critique was reserved for the New Critics, whose almost exclusive concern with figurative language and irony they thought was limiting and reductive. The essays in Critics and Criticism on I. A. Richards, William Empson, Cleanth Brooks, and Robert Penn Warren (Olson) probably represent the core of the formalist critique of this group.

Olson and the others were not totally averse to using history or biographical information, but believed them on the whole irrelevant in discussions of the work itself, even likely to distract from the central issues of literary structure and meaning. When someone failed to see this, he could be scathing. Thus he called another graduate student in one of my classes a “fool.” when she stated that he had destroyed Auden’s “Lay Your Sleep Head,” — one of the most heart-rendingly gorgeous of English lyrics — for her by telling her Auden was gay. If you read that lyric and care about that one way or the other, you have no right to read poetry.

Lee






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2005 10:27AM by Lee.
Subject Author Posted

Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Sue April 09, 2005 10:58AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Dave L April 09, 2005 12:34PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Anonymous User April 09, 2005 03:13PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Sue April 09, 2005 03:34PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Damian Walter April 09, 2005 04:09PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

John Wall April 09, 2005 04:33PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Damian Walter April 09, 2005 04:37PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

John Wall April 09, 2005 04:43PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

cicely April 09, 2005 05:20PM

couple more q's

Sue April 09, 2005 08:35PM

Re: couple more q's

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 05:03AM

Re: couple more q's

teacup April 10, 2005 10:25AM

Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 10, 2005 10:32AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 11:18AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 11:54AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 12:23PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 07:19PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 11, 2005 07:21PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

John Wall April 12, 2005 02:50AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 12, 2005 05:14AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 05:42AM

But...

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 11:09AM

Re: But...

Sue April 12, 2005 11:33AM

Re: But...

Dave L April 12, 2005 11:58AM

Re: But...

Lee April 12, 2005 01:12PM

Re: But...

Dave L April 12, 2005 01:51PM

Re: But...

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 02:33PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 09:41AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 09:57AM

Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 10, 2005 02:39PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 10, 2005 03:06PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

John Wall April 10, 2005 03:13PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 10, 2005 04:42PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 05:21AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 05:54AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 06:28AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 06:45AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 07:00AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 07:26AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 08:14AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 08:28AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

teacup April 12, 2005 08:50AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 12, 2005 12:07PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 12, 2005 08:15AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Doug Weller April 12, 2005 02:40PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 02:52PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:16PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 03:28PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

John Wall April 12, 2005 03:34PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:08PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 03:30PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 04:01PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 07:13PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 07:54PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Mercury Rapids April 13, 2005 01:41AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Pete Clarke April 13, 2005 07:41AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 13, 2005 09:03AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 13, 2005 07:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 13, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 02:51PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:18PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 13, 2005 09:30AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 09:40AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 13, 2005 10:10AM

from "the Phantom tollbooth".

Warwick L Nixon April 14, 2005 09:10AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 11:45AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Lee April 12, 2005 12:02PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 04:24PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 13, 2005 07:33AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 07:14PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 10, 2005 08:37PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Katherine Reece April 10, 2005 08:45PM

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Dave L April 11, 2005 05:38AM

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Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:02AM

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Pete Clarke April 11, 2005 06:59AM

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Anonymous User April 11, 2005 03:40PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 11, 2005 03:49PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 06:36PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 11, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 11, 2005 08:06AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 08:26AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 11, 2005 02:36PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:56PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 12, 2005 10:26AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 12, 2005 11:49AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 12, 2005 12:02PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 12, 2005 11:43AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 08:39AM

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Mercury Rapids April 11, 2005 08:48AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 09:12AM

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Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:46PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 06:59PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Jon K August 23, 2005 04:16AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 03:06AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Mercury Rapids April 10, 2005 05:04AM

Having read the whole thread...

Warwick L Nixon April 11, 2005 11:40AM

Re: Having read the whole thread...

Dave L April 11, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Having read the whole thread...

teacup April 11, 2005 06:25PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

lobo-hotei April 11, 2005 07:10PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 09:06AM



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