Home of the The Hall of Ma'at on the Internet
Home
Discussion Forums
Papers
Authors
Web Links

May 21, 2024, 12:13 pm UTC    
Anonymous User
April 09, 2005 03:13PM
Sue Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I would like to help an acquaintance of mine come
> to an understanding of The Hobbit, and I don't
> feel familiar enough with the book to do a good
> job. Can you help me? Here's what he asks:
>
> QUOTE:
> I hope to have some help on understanding how
> Tolkien's "The Hobbit" has become so popular, its
> "meaning" apparently so commanding.

Because, at its most basic level, it's a good story that holds the reader's attention, and makes them want to find out what happens next!


> Some of the questions I ask about this work are:
>
> Is this an allegory of some kind?

Nope. Tolkien made it abundantly clear in the preface to LOTR that he detested allegory.

>If so, what is
> the real substance of it and how does that real
> "message" require so extended a recitation?

See above.


> If the story is Bilbo's discovery of his courage
> through adventures directed by Gandalf, how are
> the episodes *in turn* to be explained as
> effecting that?

Deconstructing "The Hobbit" ... why should anyone want to do that, I wonder?

>Would it matter if many of them
> were interchanged?

The poor author has gone to all the trouble of designing a story, which works perfectly well as it is ... why would anyone think that the episodes should be swapped about? Yes, it would matter if they were ... they'd be out of sequence!

>
> Where did the dwarves get the gold held now by the
> dragon, and why is Gandalf, whose powers suggest
> he is above material concerns, aid them in their
> retrieving it?

Well, that's a very interesting point. Sharing out Smaug's treasure after his death represents a real moral and legal quandary of the sort often found in the real world. Basically, the gold was obtained through various acts of plunder and theft, until it's almost impossible to say who it originally belonged to; no one's got any absolute right to it. Then there's all that fuss over Bilbo taking the Arkenstone, and poor Thorin Oakenshield dies ... along with Fili and Kili, IIRC. Such a shame: you don't expect characters of that sort to die in this kind of story, but they do ... AFAICR, I think the dwarves just hired Gandalf to come along and help ... except he disappears part the way through to go and pursue other matters elsewhere.

>
> Why is the Golum the owner of the magical ring,
> and why does that episode occur when it does in
> Bilbo's story?

Another interesting point. The copy of TH that I first read in my school library when I should have been swotting for "O" level Geography was evidently a very early edition, because the riddle-asking episode was quite different to the edition that's doing the rounds now. Everyone who's seen LOTR 3 knows how Gollum came to possess the Ring (he murdered a friend who'd found it, and then stole it). But, when Tolkien first wrote TH, the ring was just an ordinary magic ring that conferred invisibility. It was only later that it occurred to him that it might not have been just any old magic ring. TH and LOTR weren't conceived at one fell swoop; Tolkien realized that what he'd written as an adventure story could be re-cycled into the epic form that he was so keen to try his hand at.
Subject Author Posted

Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Sue April 09, 2005 10:58AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Dave L April 09, 2005 12:34PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Anonymous User April 09, 2005 03:13PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Sue April 09, 2005 03:34PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Damian Walter April 09, 2005 04:09PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

John Wall April 09, 2005 04:33PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Damian Walter April 09, 2005 04:37PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

John Wall April 09, 2005 04:43PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

cicely April 09, 2005 05:20PM

couple more q's

Sue April 09, 2005 08:35PM

Re: couple more q's

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 05:03AM

Re: couple more q's

teacup April 10, 2005 10:25AM

Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 10, 2005 10:32AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 10:53AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 11:18AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 11:54AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 10, 2005 12:23PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 07:19PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 11, 2005 07:21PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

John Wall April 12, 2005 02:50AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 12, 2005 05:14AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 05:42AM

But...

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 11:09AM

Re: But...

Sue April 12, 2005 11:33AM

Re: But...

Dave L April 12, 2005 11:58AM

Re: But...

Lee April 12, 2005 01:12PM

Re: But...

Dave L April 12, 2005 01:51PM

Re: But...

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 02:33PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 09:41AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 09:57AM

Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 10, 2005 02:39PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 10, 2005 03:06PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

John Wall April 10, 2005 03:13PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 10, 2005 04:42PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 05:21AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 05:54AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 06:28AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 06:45AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 07:00AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 07:26AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 08:14AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 08:28AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

teacup April 12, 2005 08:50AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 12, 2005 12:07PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 12, 2005 08:15AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 08:27AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Doug Weller April 12, 2005 02:40PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 02:52PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:16PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 03:28PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

John Wall April 12, 2005 03:34PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:08PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 03:30PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 04:01PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 12, 2005 07:13PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 07:54PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Mercury Rapids April 13, 2005 01:41AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Pete Clarke April 13, 2005 07:41AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

cicely April 13, 2005 09:03AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 13, 2005 07:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Sue April 13, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 12, 2005 02:51PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 12, 2005 03:18PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 08:56AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 13, 2005 09:30AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 09:40AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Dave L April 13, 2005 10:10AM

from "the Phantom tollbooth".

Warwick L Nixon April 14, 2005 09:10AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 09:51AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 11:45AM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Lee April 12, 2005 12:02PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 12, 2005 04:24PM

Re: Deconstructing the Hobbit.

Anonymous User April 13, 2005 07:33AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 07:14PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 10, 2005 08:37PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Katherine Reece April 10, 2005 08:45PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 05:38AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:02AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Pete Clarke April 11, 2005 06:59AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 03:40PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 11, 2005 03:49PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 06:36PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 11, 2005 01:12PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 11, 2005 08:06AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 08:26AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 11, 2005 02:36PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:56PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 12, 2005 10:26AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

teacup April 12, 2005 11:02AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Lee April 12, 2005 11:49AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 12, 2005 12:02PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Sue April 12, 2005 11:43AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 08:39AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Mercury Rapids April 11, 2005 08:48AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 09:12AM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Anonymous User April 11, 2005 06:46PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Dave L April 11, 2005 06:59PM

Re: Reply from curmudgeonly poster...

Jon K August 23, 2005 04:16AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Anonymous User April 10, 2005 03:06AM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Mercury Rapids April 10, 2005 05:04AM

Having read the whole thread...

Warwick L Nixon April 11, 2005 11:40AM

Re: Having read the whole thread...

Dave L April 11, 2005 12:38PM

Re: Having read the whole thread...

teacup April 11, 2005 06:25PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

lobo-hotei April 11, 2005 07:10PM

Re: Can anyone help with The Hobbit?

Warwick L Nixon April 13, 2005 09:06AM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login