James I. Nienhuis, a.k.a. "Genesis Veracity" wrote:

"Hello Paul H. No radial tension cracks,
sorry pal."

Since your statement about there being "No radial tension
cracks" and the presumption that the folding of lithified
sedimentary rocks has to always produce "radial tension
cracks" are both completely wrong, there is no need for
you to apologize. :-) :-) In fact, it is quite helpful as it
provides me a clear indication of your true level of (lack)
expertise in geology.

For example, in "Ice Age End Near 1500 B.C. and Genesis",
James I. Nienhuis in [www.t4jmag.com]
wrote for the August issue of "Teens4Jesus Magazine":

"The lack of tension cracks in the now folded
sedimentary layers of the mountains shows that
the mountains rose after the sedimentary
layers were deposited and while those layers
were still moist and malleable, therefore,
for these and many other reasons, ..."

and in "Excerpt from Chapter 4, James I. Nienhuis wrote:
[www.genesisveracity.com]

"What do we conclude from this absence of
tension cracks in the folded sedimentary
rocks? Since there are no tension cracks,
the sedimentary layers were not hard rock
when they were folded. These sedimentary
layers were still wet and soft when they
were folded, as proven by the absence of
radial tension cracks in the folded, now
hard, sedimentary layers. All of these
layers were wet and soft when the folding
occurred."

First, in first quote, he specifically indicated that "tension
cracks" are completely absent from folded sedimentary strata.
In this statement, Mr. James I. Nienhuis clearly has his facts
completely wrong.In the case of strata having undergone brittle
deformation, tension cracks are quite common in folded
sedimentary strata as well-documented in the geologic
literature. For example, Oil Mountain in Wyoming provides an
excellent and well documented example of tension cracks (joints
/ fractures) associated with folded sedimentary strata as
described in:

Hennings, P. H., Olson, J. E., and Thompson, L. B.,
2000, Combining outcrop and three-dimensional
structural modeling to characterize fractured
reservoirs: an example from Wyoming, American
Association of Petroleum Geologists Bulletin,
vol. 84, no. 6, pp. 830-849.

(NOTE: joints are fractures along which no movement has
occurred.)

Real life tension cracks (fractures / joints) filled with white
quartz, which refute Mr. James I. Nienhuis' claim about the
"absence of tension cracks in the folded sedimentary rocks"
can be seen in "THE GEOLOGY OF MILLOOK HAVEN,
NORTH CORNWALL" at:
[www.brunel.ac.uk]

This outcrop consists of coastal cliffs located 7 km SSW of
Bude (G.R. SS184003 OS 1:50,000 map 190). It exposes some very
fine examples of chevron folds developed in Carboniferous
sedimentray strata. Here, Mr. Nienhuis, as anyone else would
find excellent examples of the tension cracks, which he falsely
claims don't exist. For example, numerous tension cracks
(fractures) can be seen in Photo MO3 at:

[www.brunel.ac.uk] .
[www.brunel.ac.uk]

The caption to Photo MO3 stated:

"The prominent sandstone bed on the left shows
two other features; 1) the outer surface of
the bed is fractured, and the cracks are filled
with white mineral (here it is quartz) - the
outer part of the fold is stretched and
therefore cracks easily; 2) just below the
fold hinge, the fold is broken, and there is
a minor fault where the bed is displaced.
Note that the right hand sandstone bed is
also fractured and filled with veins, but
in many places the fractures go all the
way through the bed."

Despite previously quoted contrary claims, this photograph
clearly shows numerous examples of "tension cracks" developed
in folded sedimentray rocks. Other photographs showing
examples of folds in sedimentary rocks with tension cracks
(fractures) at the same location are:

[www.brunel.ac.uk]
[www.brunel.ac.uk]
[www.brunel.ac.uk]
[www.brunel.ac.uk]
[www.brunel.ac.uk]
[www.brunel.ac.uk]

For example, in part, the caption to Photo M11 at
[www.brunel.ac.uk]
stated:

"Photo M11: View looking down on a sandstone
bed surface. This is a beautiful example of
en echelon tension fractures, infilled with
quartz cement."

Since many folds, like those found at Millhook Haven, contain
tension cracks (fractures), it is quite clear that the argument
about absence of tension cracks proving that sedimentary rocks
were folded when "still moist and malleable" is readily refuted
because its basic premise is quite obviously false.

Second, this web page is part of an undergraduate level geology
course, "Geology 1008 Planet Earth: Rocks, Minerals and
Fossils". In the above field trip, undergraduate students are
shown quite real tension cracks (fractures) associated with
folded sedimentary rocks. It is quite curious that undergraduate
students are, in this course, learning about the occurrence of
tension cracks in folded sedimentary rocks in an entry level
geology course, while Mr. Nienhuis, who alleges himself to be
an expert in geology, is busy pontificating in the August 2004
issue of "Teens4Jesus Magazine" and in his book that such
tension cracks don't exist.

This same curious situation can be seen the course notes for
a beginning undergraduate level Physical Geology course at
University of Wisconsin-Green Bay. The "Deformation / Mountain
building lecture" by R. Aileen Yingst for Earth Science 201.
These notes for an entry level Physical Geology course, which
can be found at

[www.uwgb.edu] ,

In part, these notes stated:

"Note that in these examples, foliation
occurs parallel to the axial plane. As rocks
are folded in an anticline, they may form
joints - tension fractures parallel to the
axial plane along which no movement occurs
(to distinguish them from faults)."

It is quite clear from these lecture notes that the presence of
tension cracks (fractures / joints) in folded sedimentary rocks
is a fact that is taught in undergraduate level geology courses.
Again, it is quite curious that a person, who alleges himself,
to be an expert in geology is completely unaware that his basic
premise is refuted by facts being taught in an entry level,
freshman - sophomore level science course about geology.

Second, Mr. Nienhuis is quite cocky in his text-bite size reply
about "radial tension cracks" to my initial post given that he
is quite wrong in claiming that folds don't have them. Contrary
to what he falsely claims with great confidence, concentric
folds developed in sedimentary rocks, do show, in cross section,
radial tension cracks (fractures) developed in the outer,
convex arc of these folds as illustrated by Ramsey (1967), a
widely available and read reference on folded rocks. In map
view, it is physically impossible for either anticlines or
synclines to develop a true radial fracture ("crack") pattern
because they are linear folds. However the intersection of
oblique, cross, and longitudinal sets of joints can create in
map view. a pseudo-radial pattern of tension cracks (fractures
/ joints).

Finally, in case of folds created by plastic deformation, any
geologist with a basic understanding of structural geology
would find Mr. Nienhuis' mantra, "No radial tension cracks,
sorry pal." to be a remarkably ignorant statement. Any person,
who knew anything about structural geology, would know that in
the case of plastic deformation of solid rock, it would be
impossible for tension cracks to form at all because of the
confining pressures and manner in which the rock deformed.
Instead of tension cracks (fractures), plastic deformation
would cause the formation of cleavage as illustrated in:

[earth.leeds.ac.uk]
[earth.leeds.ac.uk]
[earth.leeds.ac.uk]

It is also, quite interesting that Mr. Nienhuis has absolutely
nothing to say about the other evidence, presented in my
previous post for the deformation of sedimentary strata while
soft. This post can be found at:

[www.hallofmaat.com]

Other people, specifically Andrew Snelling in Tom Vail's book,
"Grand Canyon: a Different View" and John Morris in "Is There
Geological Evidence for the Young Earth?, Back to Genesis" no.
35b of the ICR, also argued that a similar lack of crushing of
grains and jointing where the Tapeats Sandstone was folded by
the Kaibab Monocline (Kaibab Upwarp) demonstrated it consisted
of wet, soft sand when folded. When Grand Canyon raft trip,
which I was on, visited the same outcrop discussed by them, I
easily found an abundance of fractures, joints, and crushed
strata that readily showed these observations were completely
incorrect. In fact, published studies of the Kaibab Monocline
(Kaibab Upwarp) by other geologists, i.e. Cooke (1997), Cook et
al. (2000), Mollema (1994) and Tindall (1999, 2000), all
document that the Tapeats Sandstone and other beds are
fractured, faulted, and crushed by the Kaibab Monocline
(Kaibab Upwarp) in manner that only solid, well lithified
sedimentary rocks can deform.

For example, Mollema (1994) stated:

"Four structural domains are defined from west to
east across the monocline on the basis of recurrent
fracture assemblages: (1) systematic joints at high
angle to the monocline trend and discontinuous joints
at high angle to the systematic set; (2) bedding
plane faults and associated taft cracks; (3) major
faults striking parallel to the fold axis and
deformation bands; (4) a systematic joint set
parallel to the monocline and joints at high angle
to the systematic set."

It is physically impossible for such joints and faults to have
been created by the folding of soft, "wet", and unlithified
sediment (Ramsey 1967, Mollema 1994, and many other
published papers, books, and articles)

References:

Cooke, M. L., 1997, Predicting fracture localization
in folded strata from mechanical stratigraphy and fold
shape: case study of East Kaibab Monocline, Utah.
International Journal of Rock Mechanics and Mining
Sciences. vol. 34, no.3-4, p.351.

Cooke, M. L., Mollema, P. N., Pollard, D. D., and
Aydin, A., 2000, Interlayer slip and joint
localization in the East Kaibab Monocline, Utah;
field evidence and results from numerical
modelling. In John W. Cosgrove and Mohammed S.
Ameen, eds., pp. 23-49. Forced folds and fractures.
Special Publication no. 169. Geological Society,
London.

Mollema, P. N., 1994, The influence of structural
position and lithology on the fracture distribution
in the East Kaibab Monocline, SE Utah; implications
for fluid flow properties. Unpublished M.S. thesis,
Department of Geology, Stanford University, Stanford,
California.

Reches, Z., 1978, Development of monoclines; Part I,
Structure of the Palisades Creek branch of the East
Kaibab Monocline, Grand Canyon, Arizona. In , V.
Matthews, III, ed., pp. 235-271. Laramide folding
associated with basement block faulting in the
western United States. Memoir no. 151. Geological
Society of America, Boulder, Colorado.

Tindall, S. E., 1999, Monocline development by
oblique-slip fault-propagation folding; the East
Kaibab Monocline,Colorado Plateau, Utah. Journal
of Structural Geology. vol. 21, no. 10,
pp. 1303-1320

Tindall, S. E., 2000, The Cockscomb segment of the
East Kaibab Monocline: taking the structural plunge.
In , D. A. Sprinkel, T. C. Chidsey Jr., and P. B.
Anderson, ed., pp. 1 -14. Geology of Utah's Parks
and Monuments Publication no. 28. Utah Geological
Association, Salt Lake City, Utah

Ramsay, J. G., 1967, Folding and Fracturing of Rocks.
McGraw-Hill, New York

Best Regards,

Paul
Baton Rouge, LA





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2004 11:13PM by Paul H..