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May 19, 2024, 6:46 am UTC    
Joanne
August 02, 2001 05:56PM
<HTML>Hi Chris,

The labyrinth-like circular pattern is found in Mongolia and Papua New Guinea and appears to be related, according to the monograph (I read it last spring) that was cited at the end of the article on "alternative Troy." That pattern, like stone circles, may have traveled all over, possibly part of one widespread ancient religion.

According to G. A. Wainwright's <i>Sky Religion of Ancient Egypt</i>, nine was a sacred number in the north of Egypt. The sacrificial cycles in Sweden were on a cycle of nine and involved nine victims at times too. The number seven, also sacred in Egypt, was from Upper Egypt. There were rites that follow both numbers. Wainwright also notes the nine is found in the north in Asia as well as Europe.

I have a paper on some Egyptian-type art that was found in Siberia, although I did not think from the pictures shown that it was very convincing. However, there are some of the funeral rites from the OK that have parallels to northern religious practices in Asia and the Americas, and IMO could be connected. The Tekenu has parallels in Inuit, northern Asian, and American Indian cultures. The idea found in Egyptian religious texts of path for the birds in the Duat that opens to the north is another possible link to the north. In the same monograph series, <i> The Bronze Age and Early Iron Age People of Central Asia </i>, edited by Victor Mair (Journal of Indo-European Studies Monograph # 26, 2 volumes, Institute for the Study of Man, 1998), there is a description of a cosmology involving the sky as a curtain with a corner that can be lifted up for the passage of birds. It is believed that piles of feathers are at the corners of the earth. There are also similar creation myths involving lactose tolerance, which may be a natural result of conclusions drawn about lactose tolerance by people who were, but could possibly indicate origination at one common point.

Some of the problems I see with this Troy are: shaky linguistics (words can sound alike coincidentally, and this person went out looking for sound-alike names and places), and cultural differences between the Greeks and Romans and the northern people. The Greeks and Romans were both misogynist while the Vikings, like the Egyptians, were not. Why would they change? The Greeks have a history, Schliemann's Troy or not, of animosity with the Turks. Where does this come from? And what about what Schliemann did find? This author just breezes over that. If I remember, there are several cities stacked on top of one another. He found places in one of the levels that seemed to match; he traced out the route that Hector's body was dragged, etc, etc.

The biggest problem with this for me is along the lines of Jason's point about stories being collected and lumped together. It is possible that the stories took place somewhere else and were carried to Greece, just as some of the Bible and other ANE stories were probably brought from somewhere else. But how can you connect the Iliad and the Odyssey definitely to Scandinavia?

In addition, there are close parallels between Greek heroes, such as Perseus, Theseus, and Heracles and ANE or Egyptian gods and heroes. There are some good arguments I have read that make those connections look plausible. That would also have to be accounted for somehow. If the Greeks were in Finland, it's hard. However, the stories may be much older than has been thought.

My personal feeling about the north orientation at this point is that it was for religious, non-astronomical reasons.

Joanne</HTML>
Subject Author Posted

Troy again

Chris Tedder August 02, 2001 02:45PM

Re: Troy again

Don Barone August 02, 2001 04:54PM

Re: Troy again

Joanne August 02, 2001 05:56PM



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