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Hi keeperzz,
A search through the HoM archives has thrown up some occurrences, some of which might contain textual references:
(If you use search term "exact phrase," you obtain a smaller number of instances.)
There's also Parker 1950 - .
by
Hermione
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Ancient Egypt
I'm looking for the term prt spdt in Old Kingdom texts.
Maybe someone came across references?
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keeperzz
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Ancient Egypt
Hermione: “But there are some problems here. First, we still don't really know if any of the shafts were intended to point at anything in the sky, and weren't designed and constructed for some other reason altogether.”
After pondering this issue off and on over many years I lean toward the idea that the shafts had a multi-functional purpose - both practical and metaphysical.
We s
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Alex,
from my 2008 web page on the lower shafts:
The lower shafts cannot be accessed from the top ends, and what lies beyond the closure stones is still unknown. Gantenbrink's survey of these shafts is not as comprehensive as the upper shafts, which leaves many unanswered questions.
A 'Rope Climber' that carried a high-resolution, numeric-digital instrument designed to
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Pistol: “Do they have of guess as to which daughter of Khafre it is? Shepsetkau? Rekhetre? Hemetre?”
Hemetre (Hmt-ra). Osiris is mentioned on the entrance lintel and is written with the usual eye and seat signs with determinative of ‘bearded seated man on the ground’.
Bolshakov believed it to be from late 5th dynasty, Baud late 4th.
Pistol: “It's clear to me, the end of the 4th dy
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Mark: “My model predicts a slope of just under 45 degrees. Petrie made observations in which he determined a mean angle of just over 44.5 degrees for the core masonry which is concordant with my model. Many others have reported a less steep slope. Could Petrie be correct in his assessment of the angle? He was sure it was just less than 45 degrees and not intended to be 45 degrees”
I came acros
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Graham: “At Djoser's Saqqara complex there is an inscription: "Horus is the star at the head of the sky”
The name of Netjerikhet’s pyramid is ‘Horus is the star at the head of the sky’ according to Quirke (after Helck), but if, as you state, this name is found in Djoser’s mortuary complex, where is it found?
Early Dynastic agricultural domains were set up to support the royal mo
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Hi Robin,
Thank you for sharing your excellent diagrams - they well illustrate how the shafts seem to tie in with the overall design of the pyramid - an intriguing aspect of the design.
Apart from these compelling stellar links that aligned with the upper and lower southern shafts every 24 hours throughout the year, we should also take into account how the sun aligned in the winter with the
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Chris Tedder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pistol: “Also, nowhere (AFAIK) in the pyramid
> text, coffin texts or book of dead will you find
> that the deities or gods speak to the deceased or
> each other, the texts describe only their actions
> or deeds not their words.”
>
>
> Sah (Orion), ‘father of the gods’ (PT 274 §408c),
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Pistol
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Ancient Egypt
Pistol: “Also, nowhere (AFAIK) in the pyramid text, coffin texts or book of dead will you find that the deities or gods speak to the deceased or each other, the texts describe only their actions or deeds not their words.”
Sah (Orion), ‘father of the gods’ (PT 274 §408c), spoke:
A sweet breeze to your nose! Orion (sAH) says to the 'Plough' / 'Big Dipper' (msxtjw):
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Graham: “In this post I only want to consider the meaning of the domain's name "Horus is the Star at the Head of the Sky". The book puts forward Sirius as that star, and a lot of the book is a justification for it.”
Sirius was personified by the goddess Sopdet (spdt) (later Isis was associated with Sopdet), so it’s highly unlikely Horus (male) could personify Sirius (female).
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Expertise is always greatly appreciated.
Chris Tedder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ‘Oxherd’ is mentioned in a celestial / stellar
> context:
>
> The rope has been guided, the Beaten Path crossed,
> and the ball struck at the mouth of the Apis’s
> canal. “Your marshes shall be afraid, O Climbing
> Star (iAd-star), before the
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cladking
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Ancient Egypt
Cladking: “I, for one seriously doubt either of the passages you mention apply to any star group at all. This especially applies to the second one. Looking at it again might lead to a new understanding of #273 for me. The range of translations is pretty surprising……”
‘Oxherd’ is mentioned in a celestial / stellar context:
The rope has been guided, the Beaten Path crossed, and the ball str
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Cladking: “But even if I did share this faith the fact remains that several stars appear to be mentioned in it and most especially "s3h" the "toe star" of Orion. With the numerous untranslatable words it's a huge stretch to suggest that none of them might relate to the Pleiades."
The ancient Egyptians were avid sky watchers so were probably aware of the Pleiad
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Rigel_7: “……..there is nothing to support the star shaft theory anyway……”
Nothing????? Why do you think some experienced Egyptologists, experts in AE sacred architecture and afterlife beliefs support this theory, if as you assert, there is nothing to support it?
The circumstantial and textual evidence is consistent with the idea the shafts were in some way associated with specific stars s
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
A calendar with 3 seasons, each season divided into 4 months of 30 days each and 5 days added to the 360 days to make 365 days, was in use already in the OK, and the MK text I quoted associates Sirius with the start of the year:
Sah (sAH, ‘Orion’) speaks: 'He is my son, older than I (sic) - so says Sah (sAH, ‘Orion’). '......N, who is pure and young, and Sopdet (spdt, ‘Sirius’) bore
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Pistol: “Everyone assumes new years day is on or near the inundation, however there is no direct evidence to support it..”
After a period of invisibility of about 70 days (c.2600, 68 days), Sirius briefly flickered into view at dawn (the heliacal rising of Sirius) before fading from view as the light of the sun illuminated the sky. To the AE, this event marked the beginning of their new year
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Sah (sAH, ‘Orion’) speaks: 'He is my son, older than I (sic) - so says Sah (sAH, ‘Orion’). '......N, who is pure and young, and Sopdet (spdt, ‘Sirius’) bore him, (even) she the young, she of the year, a goddess from her birth who is at the start of the year... CT 689
Chris
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Pistol: "The boats and shafts in my view contradict each others purpose if we are to believe the context outlined by scholars."
Hawass’s comments on the boats and shafts:
“….Scholars first suggested that these air channels were for ventilation, but Badawy believed that the channels provided a passage for the king’s spirit to travel to the astral regions. This latter explanatio
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Chris Tedder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MJ: “I do not see anything wrong with the idea
> that the KC shafts have something to do with
> astronomy, but I can't say the same about the
> Queen's Chamber shafts. AFAIAA, the Queen's
> Chamber shafts not reaching the outside of the
> Pyramid is not explained by astronomy.
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MJ Thomas 2
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Ancient Egypt
MJ: “I do not see anything wrong with the idea that the KC shafts have something to do with astronomy, but I can't say the same about the Queen's Chamber shafts. AFAIAA, the Queen's Chamber shafts not reaching the outside of the Pyramid is not explained by astronomy.
If this is so, then I think it sound to suggest that the astronomy angle be put completely aside for a time and s
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Chris: “Geometry can explain how the shafts were formally integrated into the design of the pyramid, but cannot alone explain the purpose of the shafts, unless you believe the designers encoded geometry into the design for its own sake.”
Kanga: “That is what I believe, and I will prove it soon enough.”
Difficult to prove – your beliefs are partly based on assumptions, not facts.
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
MJ: “In other words, it's all to do with symbolic passages and simple arithmetic and basic rectilinear geometry, not astronomy.”
So what was the purpose of these “symbolic passages”? No one could physically pass through the shafts – too small, so if they were “symbolic passages” – who or what used them, and for what purpose?
The shafts have a very simple geometric layout, but “si
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Robin: “Anthony's speculations are interesting, and indeed convincing wrt the symbolism of Khnum Khufu and Elephantine granite.”
Anthony wrote in his paper: “Clearly there is link between Khnum, the Primeval Mound at Elephantine Island, Aswan granite, and the burial chamber…….”
Inexplicably, he gave no reference for his key idea that Elephantine was the place of the First Creation
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Jammer: “If Khufu had a fear of feeling smothered upon awakening he could have easily demanded and RECEIVED air shafts... with Pharaohs before and after not requiring them... “
Apart from a metaphysical purpose, the burial chamber’s shafts may have had a practical purpose – to ventilate the chamber during the final ceremonies when the physical remains of the king were placed into his sarc
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
> The edges of the shaft inlets have been hacked
> about so much, probably by ‘treasure hunters’ that
> it would be surprising if evidence were found of a
> “once concealing stone”. Behind the opening into
> the north shaft is a 2.63m (103.54 inches) long,
> and the south shaft, 1.73 m (~68 inches) long
> horizontal section, so there was ample space for 5
> inches
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Morten
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Ancient Egypt
Bryan: “air shafts, imho, would go horizontal...star shafts would be straight with no bends.”
An inclined rather than a horizontal ventilation duct, encourages a strong flow of air upwards (heat rises), which more effectively vents the chamber. However, the inlets are low down in the walls - not an effective way of venting hot, stale air, but it does allow fresh air in. The ventilation du
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Morten: “My guess is that Petrie did not find any trace of (or space for) the "five-inch thickness of once concealing stone" in the KC.”
The edges of the shaft inlets have been hacked about so much, probably by ‘treasure hunters’ that it would be surprising if evidence were found of a “once concealing stone”. Behind the opening into the north shaft is a 2.63m (103.54 inches) long
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
Ogygos: “The Narmer palette depicts a heroic figure in the Orion stance”
Morph: “There is no evidence for a weapon wielding Orion from Egypt, only a staff carrying shepherd/Osiris type after the Mesopotamian 'shepherd of Anu' type………. In the Old Kingdom Sah was very closely related to Kingship and overcoming ones enemies, such that i don't think it unreasonable to equate the Na
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
AS: “Saying something is more likely is not the same as saying it is definitely…..”
Of course, but why state the obvious?
AS: “I have issues with Allen and sAH/Orion, just because there's no evidence to support it…..”
If as you claim, sAH / Orion is not supported by evidence, why do you think many experienced scholars, including Allen, have no problem with this identificatio
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Chris Tedder
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Ancient Egypt
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