The circular plaza just happened to look like the one in AZ I had visited. Perhaps acoustics
intent could explain the similar shape. I don't insist on it however.
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WVK
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Ancient History
I did not mean to imply that Caral had anything to do with Arizona. Both have circular plazas
which can create a whispering gallery like St Pauls.
archaeoacoustics:
"Many of us like to visit the ruins of ancient monuments and temples, trying to picture what went on at these places. But it tends to be a silent movie running in our minds. Fortunately, archaeologists are at last beginni
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WVK
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Ancient History
FYI:
Caral:
Wupatki (Arizona):
The ballcourt is a whispering gallery (personal experience):
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WVK
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Ancient History
"In 2001 researchers held the Archaeo-Musicological Research Workshop for the Flutes of Caral and made music just as earlier people may have, surrounded by torches at night. The acoustics are amazing. Whispers can be heard across the space."
"Finding 9. The special acoustical effects could be more if the archaeological site was designed for that end as it happen in other cer
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WVK
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Ancient History
"Was sound the secret weapon of the Andean elites?"
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WVK
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Ancient History
Since 1995, Dr. Rick and his teams have conducted field work at Chavín, uncovering architectural features and artifacts, many of which relate to sound and acoustics. Their 2001 discovery of twenty engraved Strombus galeatus shell trumpets, intact but with extensive use-wear, provides recent and compelling evidence for a sonic dimension to ritual practice, supporting the idea that the acoustic pro
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WVK
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Ancient History
A Mayan glyph from the Dresden Codex makes the connection between the
pyramid of Kukulkan and the Quetzal bird. This glyph shows Kukulkan,
the "sovereign plumed serpent" with a gigantic Quetzal behind him
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WVK
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Ancient History
"Emerging archaeology in a new study highlighted by the Old Temples
Study Foundation suggests that in the design of humankind’s earliest
ancient temples and monumental buildings sound and a desire to harness
its effects may have been equally important as vision."
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WVK
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Ancient History
"The monument has baffled archaeologists who have argued for
decades over the stone circle's 5,000-year history but academic
Rupert Till believes he has solved the riddle by suggesting
it may have been used for ancient raves."
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WVK
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Ancient History
Putting aside subjective sound interpretations consider the odds that 4 major
acoustical phenomena (whispering gallery, flutter echo, chirp, rattle)
rendered in massive scale, located within the same architectonic set are
all the result of current ruined or reconstructed nature.
Note that the chirp and rattle echo are unlike normal echos, which resemble the
initial input sound. Might t
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WVK
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Ancient History
Judge for yourself:
"You will hear two Quetzal bird chirps (recorded in a rain forest) followed by two chirped echoes stimulated by a handclaps at the pyramid (recorded by me in January 1998). We must not expect the sounds to be identical. Just recognizably similar. Think of a scratchy old Caruso recording. We can still recognize the voice of the great Caruso, even if it does not sound per
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WVK
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Ancient History
What are the odds that ordinary building echos would randomly combine to
mimic the sound of Kukulkan "Plumed Serpent", "Feathered Serpent" god?
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WVK
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Ancient History
"I have been there a few times (first time in 85 and 2 more times since then - now it is really commercialized) - never thought to clap my hands - I stared at the skulls and took pics."
If you thought to speak (in a normal voice) from an end temple in the Great Ballcourt those in the field between the high walls and the opposite temple can hear you perfectly well. Would a stone age p
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WVK
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Ancient History
Mayanist Falken Forshaw comments: "The thinking now is that this court (GBC) is not a place to play ball, being an "effigy" court for the purpose of ceremonial political and religious installations.
In ceremonial use context is it plausible that the built in, always on, no moving parts acoustic public address capability (intentional or not) would NOT be noticed, used and impor
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WVK
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Ancient History
"In downtown Madrid stands a replica of a sculpture by minimalist artist Eusebio Sempere. It consists of an arrangement of polished tubes that look rather like organ pipes. As it rotates on its base, its mirrored surfaces reflect brilliantly in the sunlight.
But when acoustical scientist Francisco Meseguer first saw the sculpture he noticed something different about it--sounds passing thr
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WVK
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Ancient History
According to an expert (PhD) the 600 ' x 75' portion of the colonnade (Temple of the Warriors) that produces the rattle sound is actually a phononic crystal:
"I would call it a phononic crystal. What you hear is the bandgap, it is the sound that is reflected and is not transmitted through the phononic crystal."
Who knew? Is there a glyph for Phononic crystal? I guess not
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WVK
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Ancient History
I.A. Cook, S.K. Pajot, A.F. Leuchter (2008). Ancient Architectural Acoustic Resonance Patterns and Regional Brain Activity. Time and Mind: The Journal of Archaeology Consciousness and Culture, 1 (1), pp. 95–104.
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WVK
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Ancient History
They were lodged in the basement. This is what attracted me to them:
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WVK
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Ancient History
I visited PEAR while on a NJ business trip back around 1998 to discuss Maya acoustics. Interested but had bigger fish to fry, they were engaged in remote viewing and "mind over matter" experiments!
.
For anyone interested in current (goofball free) ancient acoustic discussions:
This fellow posts on above:
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WVK
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Ancient History
Kukulkan phonetically via pyramid echo?
Listen carefully to the hand clap echos starting @ :50
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WVK
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Ancient History
Ordinary echos resemble the initial sound input not bird chirps and
rattle snakes and:
"ive been to cholula just outside of puebla,mexico,and in one of the sides of the pyramid,there are these three marble looking slabs on the left,right and center, each a good 25 yards from each other and if you stand in front of the center one and clap, you can hear the strangest sound you've hea
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WVK
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Ancient History
Paul Pettenude
wrote the following on Atzlan in 1996:
"I read your posting regarding your conversations on the subject of Mayan acoustics with some interest. Over the past 31 years I have been fortunate to have been in just over a thousand Mesoamerican sites, and in a number of them for extended periods of time.
While working specifically at the sites of Coba, Kukikan (a satell
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Ancient History
Hermione Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> As Bernard pointed out in previous posts in this
> thread,
> ) we're waiting for you to provide citations to
> confirm that quetzal was associated with rain, and
> that, despite the fact that there are no quetzals
> in Yucatan where Chichen Itza is located, the
> quetzal
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WVK
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Ancient History
The video really doesn't capture the rattle sound well, partly I think from the distance and angle from where the clap originates ( in front of El Castillo). My experience of rattle sound was from a hand clap facing the steps of the Temple of the Warrior. Those steps also chirp and you get a long ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz from the long row of columns to the right. From there, the rattle sound i
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WVK
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Ancient History
Khazar-khum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WVK Wrote:
> > Ladies & Gentlemen,
> > Do you find this combination of acoustical
> effects > > interesting? Is it in context?
>
> Interesting? Yes. In context? Without knowing the
> original intent, it's impossible to say.
I realize that nobody can ever “prove” th
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WVK
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Ancient History
WVK Wrote:
>
> Please reread the opening post, no rain gods or
> raindrop in a bucket
> sound effect involved.
> Are the two feathered-serpent columns with heads
> like dragons
> a representation of Kukulkan?
>
> Thanks
> WVK
Ladies & Gentlemen,
Do you find this combination of acoustical effects interesting?
Is it in context?
WVK
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WVK
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Ancient History
bernard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WVK Wrote:
> > Based on a real book-- Coe, Sharer, etc.
> would quetzal chirp/rattlesnake echo effect be out
> of context for Temple.
> >
> > WVK
> >
> Yes because Neither Coe nor Sharer say that the
> Quetzal was associated with rain nor that the Maya
> "marrie
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WVK
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Ancient History
Khazar-khum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > > The Maya married the two creatures, Quetzal
> and
> > Serpent into Quetzal Coatl. (Plumbed Serpent)
> This
> > diety is the movement of Creation and all
> effects
> > so produced by that movement. That means you
> and
> > me and everything we can think, feel or s
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WVK
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Ancient History
Hermione Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WVK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hermione Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > > What reliable sources did you have in
> mind?
>
> > The ones Bernard suggested - Coe, Sharer,
>
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WVK
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Ancient History
Hermione Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WVK Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Based on reliable sources, would quetzal
> > chirp/rattlesnake echo effect be out of
> context
> > for Temple.
>
> What reliable sources did you have in mind?
>
> Hermione
> Direct
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WVK
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Ancient History