Hermione Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sam Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > You would think by now there would be some
> sort of standardization. The outside examples you
> gave are understandable, because they are
> phonetically consistent. The Greek versions of Egyptian
> names are not. So we have to deal with multiple
> names and multiple versions of multiple names.
>
> This sort of difficulty is inherent in dealing
> with distant countries, with different alphabets
> and languages, in remote eras.

---

Further, even the Greek writing of names is not always consistent, particularly the further back a pharaoh's name goes, and who was writing the name.

For example, let's take the 4th Dynasty in this regard:

Snefru (/snfr-wy/), also spelled Snofru or Snoferu, was called Soris by Manetho.

Khufu (/Hwy.f-wy Xnmw-xswy.f-wy/) is rendered in Greek as Kéops[y], (Kheops/Cheops), by Diodorus and Herodotus, but also in Greek as Soûphis, Súphis, by Manetho, and even in Greek as Soph(i)e, Sofe by Josephus.

Khufu's successor, Djedefre (/Dd.f-ra/ or /Ra-Dd.f/ was called Ratoises by Manetho.

His son, Khafre (/Xai.f-Ra/ or /wsr-ib-Xai(.f)-ra/) is best known in its Hellenised forms as 'Chephren,' (both by Herodotus and Diodorus, in a parody of his name) although Manetho refers to this king as "Suphis II."

Khafre's son, Menkaure (/mn-kA.w-ra/), is called Mykerinos (by Herodotus) and Menkheres (by Manetho). The nineteenth century English poet Matthew Arnold, using the anglicised name of "Mycerinus", after the Greek form, wrote a poem about the king under this name.

the final known king of the 4th Dynasty was Shepseskaf (also read as Schepseskaf), was known by his own name in Manetho's records which explicitly gives Shepseskaf a reign of seven years which may be a combination of the 4 + 2 (= 6) full year figures noted in the Turin Kinglist for the last two kings of the Fourth Dynasty plus a significant monthly fraction. Manetho's King List does, however, also note the existence of the unknown and possibly fictitious ruler Djedefptah—called Thampthis in his records—who is ascribed a reign of nine years. The existence of this king has never been proven from the Egyptian records.

So, you see it's not as simple as the Greeks "hellenicising" the actual Egyptian names - sometimes you have to simply wonder wheretheir versions of these kings' names came from. However, considering the Greek sources (particularly Herodotus and what little we have of Manetho, via Josephus and other sources), you simply cannot rely upon their version of king's names to line up with the proper Egyptian names of these kings (it becomes even more difficult the further back, when the names of Greek gods stand in for earlier king's names).

There are many who try to play the "which king is this one, according to (Manetho, Syncellus, Herodotus, Diodorus, etc.)", but I often think that's pretty much a lost cause in actually determining Egyptian dynasties. The best you can hope for is to study the actual Egyptian forms of the kings' lists (such as the Turin, Abydos, etc.) and work from there, for this is the Egyptians writing their own history, after all.

Now that we know that they also "left off" names (such as Akhenaten --> Horemheb) and ignored a number of female rulers (Sobekneferu and Hatshepsut come to mind here), we as Egyptologists can only "fill in" those histories as we discover them.

Reference:

von Beckerath, J. 1999. Handbuch der ägyptischen Königsnamen. Münchner Ägyptologische Studien 49. Mainz: Philipp von Zabern.

Gardiner, A. H. 1997 (1959). The Royal Canon of Turin. Oxford/Warminster: Griffith Institute/Aris and Philips.

Redford, D. B. 1986. Pharaonic King-lists, Annals and Day-books: A Contribution to the Study of the Egyptian Sense of History. SSEA Publication IV. Mississauga: Benben Publications.

Verbrugghe, G. P. and J. M. Wickersham. 1996. Berossos and Manetho: Introduced and Translated. Native Traditions in Ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.

HTH.

[Ed. - Hermione - formatting]

Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Doctoral Programme in Oriental Studies [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2022 07:39AM by Hermione.