JonnyMcA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This is the problem with history, as it is often
> subjective to the propoganda of the time etc.
> Some sources (usually from UFO sites) state that
> fire rained down upon the gathered armies, but I
> have not seen allusion to an original source that
> backs this claim up. At most, it usually states
> that the army were frightened by the signs in the
> sky and ran, and killed each other ot get away
> etc.
>
> However there is also an interesting passage from
> "Flowers of History" by Roger of Wendover writting
> in the 13th century that states
>
Quote:In the year of our Lord 776, fiery and
> fearful signs were
> seen in the heavens after sunset ; and serpents
> appeared in
> Sussex, as if they had sprung out of the ground,
> to the great
> astonishment of all.
>
> What could this passage mean? the first part
> could be taken to mean a vivid auroral display
> (which would fit in well with the 14C enrichment
> if due to a solar super flare) of course or
> perhaps a meteor storm (after all 776 close to a
> peak year of leonid out bursts that occur every
> 33/34 years on average). Celestial events can be
> seen as omens or auspicious events for the "good
> guys" (read that as the winners) of events. So
> the question comes down to whether a celestial (or
> lets say meteorological event) actually occur and
> the story made up as propoganda, or did the event
> actaully occur which was interpreted as a divine
> omen from God for Charlamange's cause.

I haven't been able to find any commentary or discussion of the event, so I can't really say what might have happened (if anything). But, yes: it's possible that celestial events could be construed as supernatural indications - for example, Roger of Wendover also interprets lunar eclipses as bad omens (although, of course, during antiquity, the latter were commonly regarded in this way).

> To put it into context
> though, I think it may have been a bit premature
> fo the authors of the nature paper to state that
> there is no historical evidence of supernovae or
> aurora in the sky at the time, when there are some
> sources that indicate that there may have been
> (roger of Wendover for example).

(Wiki on Roger of Wendover, and on Flores Historiarum.)

There appear to be several volumes of Flores Historiarum.  This is Vol. 1, ed. H. Coxe -   Rogeri de Wendover Chronica: sive, Flores historiarum, Part 2 .  On pg 242, it says:

Quote

AD 776: Phaenomena … visa sunt in caelo (rubea signo post occasum solis et horrenda; et serpentsivisi sunt in Suth-sexia, cum admiratione magna, ac si scaterent de terra.

>is it possible that writing over 500 years after the event that Roger of wendover got the year of the event wrong?

Well: it does say in n.1 to the above passage that “Florence and the Sax. Chron.  say 774”.  So … yes, it’s possible, especially given that Flores Historiarum  is the work of many hands, and not just his.  From here:

Quote

Abbot Simon, who died in 1183, established in the monastery a regular office of historiographer. The first occupant of this office whose complete work has come down to us was Roger of Wendover; but his chronicle is based upon materials of which an ample wealth already existed in the abbey. The actual nucleus of the early part of Roger’sFlowers of History is supposed to have been the compilation of John de Cella, who was abbot of St. Albans from 1195 to 1214. John’s work extended down to the year 1188, and was revised and continued by Roger down to 1235, the year before his death. Roger claims in his preface to have selected “from the books of catholic writers worthy of credit, just as flowers of various colours are gathered from various fields.” Hence he called his work Flores Historiarum—a title appropriated in the fourteenth century to a long compilation by various hands. Begun at St. Albans and completed at Westminster, it was based upon the Chronicle of Matthew Paris and continued to the year 1326. The work was long ascribed to one Matthew of Westminster, but it is now known that no actual chronicler of that name ever existed. Roger of Wendover’s work is, however, now valued not so much for what he culled from previous writers as for its full and lively narrative of contemporary events, from 1216 to 1235. Although in accuracy and range and in sublety and shrewdness of insight he falls far short of his great successor as historiographer of St. Albans, Roger largely anticipates him in the fearless candour of his personal and moral judgments.  

Certainly, Roger of Wendover was capable of recording some celestial events without really understanding them, as in this description (pg 94) of a sunrise eclipse, which, with “literary licence”, he describes as a “double dawn”.

Hermione
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2013 12:47PM by Hermione.