November 30, 2007 09:15PM
|
Registered: 19 years ago
Posts: 1,627
|
MJ Thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I, along with tens of millions of other people,
> find it difficult, if not impossible, to imagine
> Nature not having purpose.
> If Nature has purpose, then it is somehow
> intelligent.
Technically, natural selection is driven by purpose, but by the purposes of the individual rather than that of some supreme being. The purpose of any bacterium is to survive and reproduce. The purpose of any mammal is pretty much the same. Higher intelligence is just purpose of an advanced form, and to the extent that it exists only in humans, it is anthropic. Our intelligence is little more than the manifestation of an advance brain. More primitive brains such as the ganglia structure of a fly or the primitive memory of a fish do in fact exist and their manifestations also enable some kind of purpose, but we don't consider these things as embodying "intelligence". Hence, intelligence or purpose are both fundamental to natural selection.
You say that if nature has purpose than it has intelligence. You do realise thiestic evolutionists would probably agree with this statement, but disagree with the mechanism, since, in their view, evolution without divine intervention is in fact an intelligent design leading to some divine purpose. Being an agnostic, i would say the jury is still out, but there's no need to extrapolate back from divine purpose to divine intervention in evolution.
> I say again, I am quietly convinced that Evolution
> is a scientific fact, but I am not at all
> convinced (through lack of comprehension) that
> Natural Selection is the sole means by which it
> happens – lurking in there somewhere is an
> Intelligent force.
This is where intelligent design lacks consistency. For many, evolution assisted at any stage by a higher intelligence is not biological evolution at all. If you follow the tenets of the ID movement, you will find that ID is fundamentally against evolution. Behe's irreducible complexity initially seemed to target only primitive cellular structures, but one wonders, given the principle itself, why his theory doesn't apply to all of evolutionary biology. Or better yet, why is evolution by natural selection sufficient in higher organisms but not in simple cellular organisms. Later testimonies seem to confirm suspicions that ID is simply repackaged creationism.
Dar
Subject |
Author |
Posted |
|
Hermione |
November 25, 2007 12:59PM |
|
Doug Weller |
November 25, 2007 01:41PM |
|
Allan Shumaker |
November 25, 2007 02:03PM |
|
Pete Clarke |
November 26, 2007 05:31AM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
November 25, 2007 06:31PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 27, 2007 06:42PM |
|
bernard |
November 27, 2007 11:53PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
November 28, 2007 12:05PM |
|
bernard |
November 28, 2007 12:28PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
November 28, 2007 02:05PM |
|
marehart |
August 10, 2011 01:49AM |
|
bernard |
November 28, 2007 12:29PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 29, 2007 05:32AM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
November 29, 2007 11:03AM |
|
Pete Clarke |
November 29, 2007 11:06AM |
|
bernard |
November 29, 2007 11:46AM |
|
bernard |
November 29, 2007 12:23PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 29, 2007 05:33PM |
|
bernard |
November 29, 2007 09:27PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
November 28, 2007 03:21AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 29, 2007 06:19AM |
|
cicely |
November 29, 2007 11:10AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 29, 2007 01:59PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
November 29, 2007 03:15PM |
|
cicely |
November 29, 2007 05:52PM |
|
darkuser |
November 30, 2007 09:33PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 01, 2007 10:01AM |
|
Hermione |
December 01, 2007 10:13AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 01, 2007 10:34AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 01, 2007 10:12AM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
November 29, 2007 02:24PM |
|
Pete Clarke |
November 28, 2007 06:41AM |
|
MJ Thomas |
November 29, 2007 12:46PM |
|
darkuser |
November 30, 2007 09:15PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
December 01, 2007 11:28AM |
|
bernard |
December 01, 2007 01:00PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
December 02, 2007 12:02PM |
|
bernard |
December 02, 2007 03:07PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
December 02, 2007 03:58PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 02, 2007 04:36PM |
|
bernard |
December 02, 2007 06:20PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
December 03, 2007 10:48AM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 03, 2007 04:29PM |
|
bernard |
December 02, 2007 06:19PM |
|
Roxana Cooper |
December 03, 2007 10:50AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 03, 2007 10:11PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 04, 2007 12:26AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 10:00AM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 04, 2007 04:27PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 05:01PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 04, 2007 05:09PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 05:53PM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 03:01AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 10:10AM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 12:44PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 03:14PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 04, 2007 04:31PM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 04, 2007 03:04AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 10:21AM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 04, 2007 11:42AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 03:19PM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 05, 2007 01:41AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 10:09AM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 05, 2007 01:34PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 04:07PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 05:32PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 05:53PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 06:07PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 06:28PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 07:19PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 08:08PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 06, 2007 07:40AM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 12:59PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 03:04PM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 04:12PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 04:37PM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 04:57PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 05:29PM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 08:09PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 09:39PM |
|
cicely |
December 04, 2007 10:12PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 10:50PM |
|
cicely |
December 05, 2007 09:17AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 01:11PM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 05, 2007 02:12PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 02:48PM |
|
cicely |
December 05, 2007 03:06PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 03:14PM |
|
bernard |
December 04, 2007 10:33PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 04, 2007 10:53PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 01:04AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 09:59AM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 12:09PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 01:08PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 05, 2007 01:33PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 02:08PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 05, 2007 02:47PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 03:00PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 05, 2007 03:10PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 05:05PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 05, 2007 06:04PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 06:54PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 06, 2007 12:09AM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 06, 2007 07:56AM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 06, 2007 10:53AM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 05, 2007 01:35PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 02:47PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 03:56PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 05:25PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 05:40PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 05:59PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 06:41PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 07:13PM |
|
Tommi Huhtamaki |
December 05, 2007 06:20PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 07:03PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 08:55PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 06, 2007 07:53AM |
|
Doug Weller |
December 06, 2007 02:30AM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 03:28PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 05:12PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 05:44PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 05, 2007 06:02PM |
|
bernard |
December 06, 2007 12:04PM |
|
MJ Thomas |
December 05, 2007 01:14PM |
|
cicely |
December 04, 2007 03:00PM |
|
Allan Shumaker |
December 05, 2007 12:24PM |
|
bernard |
December 05, 2007 03:14PM |
|
Charlie Hatchett |
December 06, 2007 08:17AM |
|
Allan Shumaker |
August 09, 2011 07:56PM |
|
marehart |
August 10, 2011 02:17AM |