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April 30, 2024, 7:21 pm UTC    
Lee
April 19, 2005 09:35AM
Hi Sue,

This is for L.

Thanks for your interesting remarks, which I, of course. think are slightly off the mark. I note once again that formalism is descriptive not proscriptive, so that no structures are being imposed from outside a work nor is a nor is a work judged by whether it conforms to the structure of other works.

That said, aside from introducing Quineau's own external comments on the mathematics of his work, I'd say you've written something that has many elements of a conventional structuralist/formalist critique.* You have, for example, identified certain devices in the structure as intentional and asked what follows from that intention: why is this detail here, is always my fundamental question, and what changes if it isn’t. This is the essence of structuralism, in my view: engagement with the form of the work itself, not some arbitrary form imposed from outside. Thus I don't think a structuralist would complain that Witch Grass (a work I have not read) has no structure. What a formalist would do is try to discern the structure the author has given it.

This is also why no formalist/structuralist is likely to think there is any necessary problem with “mixing” genres such as poetry and prose. Virginia Woolf did it continually – in The Waves, for example, with what I think is perfect success. I personally like the sudden sex change in Orlando, and love the “irrationality” of the Master and Margarita. Although neither book is formal in the sense of conforming to some external template, each is on its own terms perfectly amenable to structuralist criticism.

As a final note, you seem to think a formalist would object to a “’he says’ which makes no sense other than as an interjection by the author himself.” A formalist will notnot ote object at all so long long as it does make sense as an interjection and works in context. A formalist, will, however, object to dragging in Quineau’s “de externo” remarks about the structure of the novel; if the reader cannot discern the structure without authorial commentary, the author hasn’t done his work.

You’re right. The discussion has been lively. Thanks for your additions to it.

Lee
Subject Author Posted

for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Sue April 13, 2005 11:11AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Anonymous User April 13, 2005 05:08PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Pete Clarke April 14, 2005 05:37AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Ritva Kurittu April 14, 2005 08:48AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Pete Clarke April 14, 2005 09:00AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Ritva Kurittu April 14, 2005 09:16AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Sue April 14, 2005 10:48AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Anonymous User April 14, 2005 11:18AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Ritva Kurittu April 14, 2005 11:37AM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Lee April 14, 2005 01:00PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Ritva Kurittu April 14, 2005 02:22PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Lee April 14, 2005 03:10PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Anonymous User April 14, 2005 06:15PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Sue April 15, 2005 12:12PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

darkuser April 15, 2005 09:25PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Lee April 14, 2005 11:15AM

Respondit Swilley.. dixit

Sue April 15, 2005 07:00PM

Re: Respondit Swilley.. dixit

Anonymous User April 15, 2005 09:13PM

Re: Respondit Swilley.. dixit

Sue April 16, 2005 03:13PM

Re: for Lee from L. Swilley re lit crit

Anonymous User April 16, 2005 06:23AM

formalism & Queneau

Sue April 17, 2005 09:46AM

Re: formalism & Queneau

Anonymous User April 18, 2005 07:40AM

Re: formalism & Queneau

Lee April 19, 2005 09:35AM

Re: formalism & Queneau

Sue April 19, 2005 07:25PM

Re: formalism & Queneau

Lee April 20, 2005 09:28AM

Re: formalism & Queneau

Sue April 20, 2005 06:08PM



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