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May 3, 2024, 3:29 am UTC    
September 06, 2001 05:32AM
<HTML>I don't think that Sandy has read or even heared of Lucas/harris, and I have doubts that Morris or Davidovits know it, either. Or if they know they ignore the basic informations in it.

Lucas/Harris "Ancient Egyptian Materials and Inustries" is still THE fundamental book about Egyptian production technique. From p. 74 on they write about plaster and mortar used in Egypt and have some interesting information.

"The mortar used in ancient Egypt before Graeco-Roman times was of two kinds ... namely, clay for use with sun-dried brick and gypsum for use with stone. ...
<b>No instance of the use of lime mortar in Egypt, or of lime in any form, is known to the author as occuring before the time of Ptolemy I (323 to 285 B.C.). </b>From this period and from later periods it has, however, been found and, from the few specimens analysed, it appears to have been, as is inly to be expected, of much the same composition as the lime mortar today."
Lucas/Harris p. 74

And now another explanation possibly of the trap Davidovits fell into...

"Gypsum occurs plentifull in Egypt in two conditions ... As found thus, gypsum is never pure, but contains varying proportions of calcium carbonate and sand, together with small amounts of other ingredients. <b>The presence of calcium carbonate ... has let those who are not familiar with Egyptian gypsum and who know only the purer European article, to imagine that it is due to an intentional admixture with lime, which in course of time has become converted tinto carbonate by natural processes, as happens in case of lime mortar.</b> ... Ancient Egyptian plaster of the kind under consideration is crude gypsum that has been burnt, powdered and slaked, and <b>any calcium carbonate and sand it contains are not artificial additions, but impurities derived from the raw material in which they occur naturally.</b>"
Lucas/Harris p. 78

And some closing words why Egyptians didn't use lime even for plaster:
"The reason for preferring gypsum to lime, although limestone is very plentiful in the country, even more plentiful than gypsum and also more accessible, was doubtless owing to the scarcity of fuel, lime, as will be shown later when dealing with plaster, requiring a very much higher temperature for burning, and hence more fuel than gypsum, and it was not until the advent of the Greeks and Romans, both of whom knew lime in Europe, where gypsum is useless for outdoor work on account of the wet climate, that lime-burning was practised in Egypt."
Lucas/Harris p. 75

And about the temperatures:
"Chemically, Gypsum is calcium sulphate containing water in intimate combination. On being heated to a temperature of about 100°C (212°F) gypsum loses about three-fourths of its water and has the property of recombination with water and forms a substance that sets and finally becomes very hard. The temperature usually employed for burning gypsum varies from about 100°C to about 200°C, but is generally kept about 130°C, which is a heat readily obtained. ... In order thatthe difference of temperature required to produce lime by burning limestone as compared with that needed to calcine gypsum may be appreciated, it may be mentioned that to convert calcium carbonate into quicklime a temperature of about 900°C (1652°F) is required."
Lucas/Harris p. 79

And about the often greyish colour of plaster/mortar:
"When the colour is grey, this generally is owing to the presence of small particles of unburnt fuel".

Well, let's summarize:

- Lime was never known nor used in Egypt before around 300 BCE
- for all mortars and plasters used during 4000 years of Egypt (mortar & plaster are known even from predynastic times) only gypsum is used
- gypsum as part of the pyramid blocks would easily detecteable and is out of discussion

If lime is a key point to Davidovits/Morris hypothesis, now the point is reached to push is overboard. If the Egyptians has KNOWN lime they would have used lime plaster, too. Somewhere. Funny thing: Gypsum Mortar was even used at the pyramids themselves. See Lucas/Harris p. 470, where several mortar samples are chemically analyzed:
1 from Hethepheres
3 from Khufu's pyramid
2 from Kaphere's pyramid
3 from Kaphere's valley temple
6 from the Sphinx
7 from the Mastaba of Shepseskaf

Funny. Using lime by the mega ton, but using gypsum plaster between the blocks...

The Egyptians truly must have been crazy.

FD :-)

[...]</HTML>
Subject Author Posted

2nd question to Mrs. Morris

Frank Doernenburg September 01, 2001 04:26AM

Waiting patiently...

Anthony September 01, 2001 09:04PM

Re: Waiting patiently...

Sandy J. Perkins September 02, 2001 01:24PM

Correction...

Anthony September 02, 2001 08:59PM

Casting doubt

Jani September 03, 2001 06:52AM

Re: Casting doubt

Sandy J. Perkins September 03, 2001 09:33PM

Re: Casting doubt

Frank Doernenburg September 04, 2001 04:39AM

Re: Casting doubt

Jani September 04, 2001 07:02AM

Re: Casting doubt

Sandy J. Perkins September 04, 2001 03:38PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Sandy J. Perkins September 04, 2001 03:11PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 04, 2001 03:26PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

jameske September 04, 2001 04:01PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 04, 2001 06:35PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

jameske September 04, 2001 06:52PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 04, 2001 07:01PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Anthony September 04, 2001 08:40PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 05, 2001 04:11AM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Anthony September 05, 2001 09:46AM

Re: Casting Ignorance

jameske September 05, 2001 04:59PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Sandy J. Perkins September 05, 2001 03:55PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 05, 2001 04:08PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Frank Doernenburg September 05, 2001 04:27PM

and now the solution...

Frank Doernenburg September 06, 2001 05:32AM

Re: and now the solution...

Anthony September 06, 2001 07:53AM

Re: and now the solution...

Frank Doernenburg September 06, 2001 08:05AM

Re: and now the solution...

Anthony September 06, 2001 08:09AM

Re: and now the solution...

Frank Doernenburg September 06, 2001 08:55AM

Re: and now the solution...

Martin Stower September 06, 2001 09:08AM

Re: and now the solution...

Frank Doernenburg September 06, 2001 04:53PM

Re: and now the solution...

Sandy J. Perkins September 06, 2001 08:07PM

Re: Casting Ignorance

Sandy J. Perkins September 06, 2001 08:01PM

Quick fact checking...

Anthony September 07, 2001 05:44AM

Re: Quick fact checking...

Sandy J. Perkins September 08, 2001 06:23PM

You're lying again...

Anthony September 09, 2001 06:59AM

Re: You're lying again...

Sandy J. Perkins September 09, 2001 08:06PM

Re: You're lying again...

Anthony September 10, 2001 09:03AM

Re: You're lying again...

Sandy J. Perkins September 12, 2001 12:20AM

Re: Correction...

Sandy J. Perkins September 03, 2001 09:37PM

Re: Correction...

Anthony September 04, 2001 06:09AM

Re: Correction...

Sandy J. Perkins September 04, 2001 03:20PM

Re: Correction...

Anthony September 04, 2001 03:59PM

Re: Correction...

Sandy J. Perkins September 05, 2001 04:01PM

Frank says...

Anthony September 05, 2001 05:16PM

You're in Trouble

Sandy J. Perkins September 06, 2001 08:27PM

Threats instead of Answers... typical

Anthony September 07, 2001 10:18AM

Re: Threats instead of Answers... typical

Sandy J. Perkins September 07, 2001 07:58PM

So, answer the questions already!

Anthony September 07, 2001 10:30PM

Re: You're in Trouble

Anthony September 07, 2001 05:30PM

Anthony's Distortions

Sandy J. Perkins September 07, 2001 08:23PM

Re: Anthony's Distortions

Anthony September 07, 2001 09:51PM

Re: You're in Trouble

Chris Dunn September 07, 2001 09:14PM

Re: You're in Trouble

Anthony September 07, 2001 09:36PM

Re: You're in Trouble

Chris Dunn September 07, 2001 10:01PM

Sandy...

Anthony September 07, 2001 10:25PM

Beware of Anthony's Distortions

Sandy J. Perkins September 08, 2001 06:42PM

Sandy's Intentions...

Anthony September 09, 2001 07:05AM

Re: You're in Trouble

Sandy J. Perkins September 08, 2001 06:37PM

Gender Bender

Anthony September 09, 2001 07:00AM

Re: Gender Bender

Sandy J. Perkins September 09, 2001 08:09PM

Re: Gender Bender

Anthony September 10, 2001 08:08AM

Re: Gender Bender

Sandy J. Perkins September 12, 2001 12:23AM



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