Doug Weller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Charlie, please try to report articles correctly.

Seeing my post is solely quotes from the Science article
and the Nature paper I don’t know how it could be any more
correct. The title of the Science article is: “Ancient
DNA Links Native Americans With Europe”



> Western Eurasians means people from "West Asia and
> Europe".

Thanks for the clarification.



> Note that this is before the
> recolonisation of Western Europe from the Middle
> East after the Last Glacial maximum, so what we
> are seeing is quite likely a movement of people
> from the Middle East both eastwards and westwards.

So conjecture is what you were looking for, not accuracy in reporting.


> I see the four "takehome" messages are:
> First Americans descended from the meeting and
> admixture of at least two populations, of which
> one is related to contemporary East Asians and the
> other to present-day western Eurasians.



“…The finding suggests that about a third of the ancestry of today’s Native Americans
can be traced to western Eurasia, with the other two-thirds coming from eastern Asia*,
according to a talk at a meeting here by ancient DNA expert Eske Willerslev of the
University of Copenhagen…”

Native American mtDNA Hg X is not derived from East Asia, and Willerslev only offers one scenario where East Asian admixture is involved:

“…The team proposes a relatively simple scenario: Before 24,000 years ago, the
ancestors of Native Americans and the ancestors of today’s East Asians split into
distinct groups. The Mal’ta child represents a population of Native American ances-
tors who moved into Siberia, probably from Europe or west Asia. Then, sometime after the Mal'ta boy died, this population mixed with East Asians. The new, admixed population eventually made its way to the Americas. Exactly when and where the
admixture happened is not clear, Willerslev said. But the deep roots in Europe or west Asia could help explain features of some Paleoamerican skeletons and of Native American DNA today. The west Eurasian [genetic] signatures that we very often find
in today’s Native Americans don’t all come from postcolonial admixture, Willerslev said in his talk. Some of them are ancient.…”







> These findings may explain the presence of
> mitochondrial lineage X in Native Americans.

The Mal’ta burial possessed mtDNA Hg U, which is included in MHg R, as is Native American Hg B. Native American Hg X is included in Mhg N(xR). The two NA hgs have very different migration patterns.

> The presence of a population related to western Eurasians further into northeast Eurasia
> provides a more likely explanation for the presence of non-East Asian cranial > characteristics in the First Americans, rather than the Solutrean hypothesis that > proposes an Atlantic route from Iberia.

Maybe, maybe not, but it doesn’t explain the presence of NA Hg X.


> Genetic continuity in south-central Siberia before
> and after the LGM provides evidence for the
> presence of humans in the region throughout this
> cold phase, which is of consequence to population
> movements into Beringia and ultimately the
> Americas around 15,000 years ago

And before 15,000 years ago?


> Lots of comments at Dienekes blog

Indeed:

“…Did the two mix in Siberia or did they arrive in the Americas in separate migrations and mix there?..”

“…This is based on a misunderstanding. Only Eskimo-Aleuts and Na-Dene are closer to Han than they are to Mal'ta (p. 198, Suppl. Mat.) They carry the other New World ancestral component that's different from the First American component . The First American component didn't come from East Asians. And it's precisely that First American component that's found in Mal'ta. Unless Amerindians, save Eskimo-Aleuts and Na-Dene, are 100% West Eurasians (and the paper assigns only a minor West Eurasian ancestry to Amerindians), there's no way they can be a mix of East Asians and West Eurasians…”

“…The David Reich lab doesn't accept this paper's conclusion that Amerindians are a mix of West Eurasians and East Asians. Precisely because it's clear that the Amerindian component back migrated from America.

’The First American component didn't come from East Asians. And it's precisely that First American component that's found in Mal'ta’.

Yes, that's what the paper says."

“…It's clear from their ADMIXTURE run, just like from a myriad of others from Rosenberg et al. 2002 on that Amerindians are largely unadmixed and it's precisely this Amerindian component that's found all over Eurasia and even in South Asia and the Middle East. And the Mal'ta boy was very much an Amerindian…”

“…The David Reich lab doesn't accept this paper's conclusion that Amerindians are a mix of West Eurasians and East Asians. Precisely because it's clear that the Amerindian component back migrated from America…”

"…I think you'll be pleased to know that I do consider quite interesting and worthy of more thorough investigation indications of back-migration or complex bidirectional interaction between the New World and Eurasia, and believe that contemporary and ancient American genomic data may well play a useful role in disentangling archaic/modern interactions. I will also say that our group does have some reservations about the scenario Eske proposed.., given the potentially confounding factor of Amerindian-related North Asian gene flow into prehistoric Europe (as outlined in Nick Patterson's 2012 "Ancient Admixture in Human History"), which prehistoric West Eurasia > Americas input is by itself clearly insufficient to explain…"


“…German Dziebel said...

@Kristiina

’Basically I would like someone to explain me why the ancient 15k Amerind admixture in Europeans is visible but the ancient massive East Asian admixture in Amerinds is not?’

Finally, the voice of reason in a jungle of ignorance and superstitions. Kristiina, you are getting my Web Gem Reward this week…”

“…At least two Amerindian components (PINK and ORANGE) seem to have migrated out of America, with no YELLOW (Asian) components entering it. What ADMIXTURE can't detect if whether the West Eurasian (BLUE) component entered the New World and admixed with the other two or the New World is the place where it originated…”


Charlie Hatchett