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May 22, 2024, 11:35 am UTC    
April 20, 2009 10:06AM
The concept of a ruling dynasty that turned so inward it severed what promised to be lucrative trade ties in a solid belief it was the center of the world and all barbarians should come to them caring to EXPORT knowledge to the sasme barbarians is ludicrous.

Some of their science trickled down the silk road. But it wasn't state sponsored, it was actually "stolen".

Gunpowder was a pyrotechnical weapon to the Chinese, there "grenades" so slow burning the Japanese called them "Stink pots" and "Smoke-spitters" as the black powder ignited so unevenly and slowly it's expansion power was quite weak.

The Muslim alchemists worked on it first, increasing the quality control and formula, creating the first "hand-gonnes". European alchemists improved on even that, and their gunsmiths constantly improved the quality of cast, then steel fabrication. By the time the Portuguese showed up with fairly modern cannon in 1517 the Chinese didn't even recognize their weapon when it was turned on them.

But why would the "Middle Kingdom" spend one dram of effort intentionally sending science or the arts to barbarian Europe? It is so far outside their societal concepts as to be laughable.

In 750CE the Chinese Tang Dynasty emperor sent an army to conquer "all of the west". The army numbered 30,000 and was commanded by Gao Xianzhi, a Korean who had risen to prominance in the Tang command. They reached as far as Talas, in modern Khazakhstan, after having succeeded in reaching and receiving submission from the western Aral and Caspian basins. At the battle of Talas the army was soundly defeated, with only 10% surviving to fight another day. The slave markets of Anatolia and the Abbasid Caliphate were oversupplied for several seasons. And the Tang dynasty Imperial Staff had both Gao and his fellow general Fend executed. Purportedly it was for cowardice and graft, but the realty was the Imperial Dynasty could conceive of no way the ignorant barbarians could win unless the generals were complicit.

From the book synopsis;
>" mass of information was offered by the Chinese delegation to the Pope and his entourage
> - concerning world maps (which Menzies argues were later given to Columbus), astronomy,
> mathematics, art, printing, architecture, steel manufacture, civil engineering, military
> machines, surveying, cartography, genetics..."

Of which there is no public record and furthermore, when the Portugese established contact in the 16th century, the Chinese were BEHIND the European state of the art in Steel, Civil Engineering, Military machines? The concept makes no sense.

Jammer


Subject Author Posted

1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Hermione April 20, 2009 03:33AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Jammer April 20, 2009 10:06AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Khazar-khum April 20, 2009 11:22AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

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Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Duncan Craig April 20, 2009 06:43PM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Khazar-khum April 21, 2009 01:45AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Jammer April 21, 2009 07:43AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

mlpeel April 21, 2009 10:41AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Roxana Cooper April 20, 2009 12:00PM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Cognito April 20, 2009 12:52PM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

Byrd April 21, 2009 09:30AM

Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

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Re: 1434: The Year a Magnificent Chinese Fleet Sailed to Italy and Ignited the Renaissance

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