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May 20, 2024, 1:32 pm UTC    
The Ram
September 16, 2004 03:16AM
Doug M wrote:

"Discussion about why the advanced culture of the Nile Valley never permeated deep into the heart of Africa is a good one."

Indeed. There are lots of cultural similarities with other Africans in the interior of the Continent, though.

Some Egyptians, like Moustafa Gadalla, have theorized that ancient Egyptians actually migrated to some of these regions and founded some of the Kingdoms that flourished there prior to non-African contact. Though I doubt this diffusionist theory, I do note that Africans elsewhere developed well-organized societies that need not be as spectacular as ancient Egypt or Nubia to be considered advanced societies.

"Why did building in stone not spread into interior Africa, and so on?"

It did in places like Zimbabwe, Meroe, ancient Ghana, Songhai and the like.


"European colonization would not have stopped advanced culture from taking root in Africa, since European colonization is a relatively recent event."

I wouldn't go that far. We can only conjecture what could have happened had Europeans and Arabs not uprooted Africa's human potential and ciphoned its material wealth to build or promote advanced civilizations elsewhere. Practically all of Africa, including Egypt, was colonized. Only Ethiopia was saved the hassle, to a certain extent. Colonial policies were not uniform, either, though designed largely to benefit the colonial power. A lot of African nations were also subjected to slavery. One should not ignore this fact and its impact on African advancement.

Besides, it depends on what you mean by "advanced culture" since some African Kingdoms had developed into complex societies at different periods before non-African contact. Colonial powers even recognized this fact by deliberately retaining most of the structures and systems already established by the colonized Africans. The fact that they were not as advanced as European systems does not mean that advanced culture did not take root in Africa prior to non-African contact - unless, of course, you are speaking in relative terms.

"There are advanced ancient cultures from America, India and Asia that have no contemporaries in Africa"

I would consider ancient African civilizations as Ghana, Songhai, Zimbabwe, Meroe and the like as spectacular or "advanced" enough for their times. It would be hard to make "contemporaries" of civilizations since civilizations rise and decline sometimes at different periods. People are still grappling with what "civilization" means anyway.

"...many tribes disdain modern practices and continue their ancient primitive way of living,..."

Fellahin who still practice some of the pharoanic customs and engage in rural farming are considered to be living the "ancient primitive way," at least, by the Egyptian government and many Cairenes. Ergo, what was the "advanced culture" of ancient Egypt is now considered "ancient primitive way of living."

Things change, don't they? Indeed, a great way to embrace and benefit from modernity is to be open-minded; but that still doesn't mean you have to ditch all your "ancient primitive way of living;" only those that hinder your development. Some Africans from the interior of the Continent that I know in the United States have proved this to me.

Egypt is no longer the most advanced civilization it once was, so are Greece, Italy (Rome), Turkey (the Ottoman Empire), the U.K. (the British Empire), and the like. You never know which country (could well be "sub-Saharan" African) or continents (EU, AU) would hold sway in several thousand years down the road.

The bottom line is, "every dog has its day."
Subject Author Posted

Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 06:40AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 07:28AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 09:09AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 09:10AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 09:33AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 09:34AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 10:57AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 11:00AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 11:07AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:14AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 12:26PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Anonymous User September 15, 2004 07:34AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana September 15, 2004 01:05PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Anonymous User September 15, 2004 05:31PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 05:49PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:13AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 11:01AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:17AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Warwick L Nixon September 14, 2004 09:42AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

cicely September 14, 2004 10:49AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:07AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 01:14PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 01:26PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 10:52AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:11AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 14, 2004 07:11PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 07:37PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 07:42PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 14, 2004 08:10PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 11:05AM

BUT!! My point is..

Warwick L Nixon September 14, 2004 12:26PM

Re: BUT!! My point is..

Salsassin September 14, 2004 12:30PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 14, 2004 07:25PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 07:45PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 14, 2004 08:13PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 08:33PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:39PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:33PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 08:36PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:41PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:30PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 10:23PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 15, 2004 12:21AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 01:05PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana September 15, 2004 01:07PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 01:23PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana September 15, 2004 02:48PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 03:28PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 15, 2004 08:07PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 15, 2004 02:21PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 02:25PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 15, 2004 03:04PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 03:10PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 15, 2004 03:15PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 03:31PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 15, 2004 04:21PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 04:28PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 15, 2004 08:18PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 08:26PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 15, 2004 08:30PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 08:44PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 02:10PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 02:32PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 02:40PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 02:47PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 02:49PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

cicely September 14, 2004 02:39PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 02:47PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 02:48PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Dave L September 14, 2004 04:23PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 04:28PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 04:28PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 04:35PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 04:48PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 04:53PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 04:56PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 05:08PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 05:17PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 05:20PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 06:09PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 06:51PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 14, 2004 08:02PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 08:25PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 15, 2004 06:21AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana September 15, 2004 12:44PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:43PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 08:46PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:03PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 03:52AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 03:48AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 05:00PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 05:12PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 05:19PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 14, 2004 05:21PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 05:30PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 05:47PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 04:00AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 05:14PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 07:58PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:45PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 08:52PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:02PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 09:05PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:15PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 05:42PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 06:50PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Sam September 14, 2004 07:23PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 08:26PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:27PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 09:03PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:16PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana September 15, 2004 12:49PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 09:50PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 04:09AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 01:24PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 01:25PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin January 30, 2006 03:38PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 14, 2004 07:26PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 08:47PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 08:37PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Sam September 14, 2004 08:49PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:03PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 09:04PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Sam Norwood September 14, 2004 09:21PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 14, 2004 09:36PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 14, 2004 09:41PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Pete Clarke September 15, 2004 07:12AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 15, 2004 05:41PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 06:00PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 15, 2004 06:04PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 15, 2004 06:50PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

John Wall September 16, 2004 03:37PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 16, 2004 10:30AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Pete Clarke September 16, 2004 10:50AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

cicely September 16, 2004 11:05AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 16, 2004 11:35AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 16, 2004 11:29AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Doug M September 16, 2004 01:40PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 16, 2004 01:55PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 16, 2004 11:32AM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Roxana Cooper September 15, 2004 08:58PM

Re: African Civilizations

The Ram September 16, 2004 03:16AM

Re: African Civilizations

Salsassin September 16, 2004 03:35AM

Re: African Civilizations

Roxana Cooper September 16, 2004 10:02AM

Re: African Civilizations

Salsassin September 16, 2004 11:36AM

Re: African Civilizations

Roxana Cooper September 16, 2004 09:55AM

Re: African Civilizations

The Ram September 16, 2004 04:25PM

Re: African Civilizations

Salsassin September 16, 2004 04:30PM

Re: African Civilizations

Salsassin December 20, 2007 02:09PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 21, 2004 01:12PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

bernard September 21, 2004 02:15PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 21, 2004 03:01PM

Re: Afrocentric Book Reviews

Salsassin September 21, 2004 01:44PM

No Alternative History

The Ram September 17, 2004 01:34PM

Re: No Alternative History

Salsassin September 17, 2004 02:13PM



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