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Re: sqd - 16 years ago
Hermione wrote "I'm not quoting argument from authority. What I'm quoting are the conclusions that authority has drawn from the evidence.
I really don't see how the Arnold quote could possibly give rise to any misunderstanding"
The same author having looked at the evidence for the construction drawing of the vault of Ramses VI describes it as a 'true ellipse c
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Reading Clive's argument that G1 etc never had been cladded with casing blocks reminded me to re-read 'Cairo - Biography of a City' J.Aldrige ( 1969) which mentions the pyramids and the construction of Cairo's more famous buildings.
I thought that earthquakes were the usual argument for the pyramids being used to supply stone for the re-building of Cairo, but although this bo
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"In fact, though, the shafts were never needed in that chamber, since Khufu lived long enough to see his "originally and ultimately intended" burial chamber completed."
You are saying that the QC shafts were needed purely as a precaution in case Khufu died at this stage?
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Clive,
Ronald not only belittles the abilities of the ancient Architects/Planners but he is also at odds with the experts on the pyramids. Ronald speculates miscalcalculations and ad-hoc architecture might explain the fact that the entrance is off-centre.
The experts disagree with Ronald and suggest a beautifully planned project.
" The sequence of the rooms [ in khufu's pyramid
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Hans,
Nearly all Egyptologists accept that temples are designed with the same purpose and based upon a throwback to ancient tent shrines. It doesn't mean they are all exactly the same size shape and design.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"Actually that's an easy one. Sometime a king may want to associate himself closely with his predecessors for political or personal reasons and other times he may want to stand out"
What evidence IN the Memphis pyramid field leads you to this conclusion?
Do you have evidence Djoser didn't want to be buried at Giza for example? To what political or personal reasons are you
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"Don't you think it is very plausible that a king just wants to build his tomb next to the tombs of other kings"
You must then explain why Djedefre proves your argument incorrect.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"When the outer mantle slipped down, at what stage do you think this happened"
Arnold 'Building in Egypt' says the original casing was probably damaged by the weight of the pyramid- this damaged casing then being covered by another layer of casing with more damage again being caused to this new outer layer.
Even so casing damage to the original layer suggests a late stage
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Some scholars think the design was deliberate and motivated by religious and/or political intentions.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"Why is Khafre's pyramid almost as big as Khufu's then ?"
If you do not agree with the reasons above ie view, location, size then you must propose a better explanation.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Many regard the bent pyramid as deliberately designed with two slopes.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
"Quite a stunning symbolic effect afaic"
Yes, stunning visually in the early morning light.
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
As opposed to the traditional argument that a Pharoah only planned his pyramid when he became king, a more realistic, pragmatic approach would argue that not only were individual pyramids planned in advance ( by a planning beauracracy) but whole pyramid fields were planned in advance and within strict criteria.
This being the case then clearly the Pharoahs themselves had little say in the matt
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Chris
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Ancient Egypt
Yes Ritva - also Symons points out that Senmuts ceiling ( as accurate as it is) "was not the first attempt to present a detailed depiction of the sky."
Chris
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Chris
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Ancient History
" Astronomical Ceilings are more than just beautiful designs. They are the nearest documents we have to ancient Egytptian star maps. Among the symbolism we can see evidence of observation and categorisation of celestial objects.
"Today we can view an astronomical ceiling in a temple or tomb, then go into the desert and watch the same stars and planets still travelling in the Egyptian s
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Chris
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Ancient History
"When they weren't building pyramids they were back home planting tending irrigating and harvesting the crops that made the pyramid building possible."
So, the pyramids were built by peasant farmers during the 3 month inundation period. Can you post a single reference to this?
In this scenario, presumably the temple beauracracy were happy to see the labour disappear to work on
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Chris
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Ancient History
Was working from memory.
" The work on the Giza Plateau has started to prove to us what logic and reason, combined wirh mathematics, had already suggested. The Pyramids were built by a permanant and skilled workforce...."
"The plan to build pyramids seems to have restarted under Snofru.. "
"This involved large numbers of men, although probably not more than 7000 '
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Chris
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Ancient History
Hi Dave,
Yes thats Reymond.
Looking for English work perhaps translating Kurth?
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Chris
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Ancient History
Voyager,
I agree with Kat that a pyramid industry existed in the 4th Dynasty. El Mahdy ' Kheops The Pyramid Builder' suggests there was a core workforce of 7000 permanantly employed Nubian captives working on Khufu's pyramid -supervised by Egyptian experts.
Chris
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Chris
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Ancient History
As I understand it the Building texts at Edfu refer to Imhotep and his father Kanefer as great architects of both the temple at Edfu and the pyramid at Sakkara. Does anyone know of English translations/analysis of these building texts? I've got Reymonds work.
Regards,
Chris.
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Chris
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Ancient History
Many of the wrings at Temples refer to events in the past. For example at Denderah the writings refer to the building being re-built by Thotmes III according to its ancient design.
Thotmes was long dead - Does this make the scribe a pious faker in your opinion?
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Chris
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Ancient History
>>The so-called Imhotep codex was originally quoted by Scott (sorry, don't have the link) as support for the GOCT theory. However, it was subsequently pointed out that the quote referred to temples such as Eedfu, Denderah, etc.
>>Giza is not a temple, but a collection of funerary complexes.
You initially wrote "why should it involve the pyramids alone?" Well it
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Chris
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Ancient History
>>The source is probably the Edfu building texts, which are Ptolemaic. Imhotep was not deified until a very long time after his death, and all sorts of things were attributed to him. So, not only is the quote misrepresented, as it has nothing to do with Giza, but the text is a (very) late, pious fake.
Can you explain why the above is a pious fake?
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Chris
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Ancient History
>>2. Why should there be a "plan", and why should it involve the pyramids alone?
In the thread below you specifically refer to the Imhotep codex relating to Temples!
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Chris
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Ancient History
>>Khafre could not use the line for his own theological purposes, but instead built the Sphinx
Evidence for both of above?
>>Regarding the Heliopolis alignment, we cannot presume that Khufu had in mind the SE corner of his pyramid. We cannot even be sure that Khafre had the SE corner of his pyramid when he established his pyramid. The Heliopolis alignment with the SE corners of
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Chris
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Ancient History
Thanks Chris,
This drawing of yours I find extraordinary.
The 26.15 degree line from Iunu to Djedefre's pyramid exactly bisects the Giza/Khem line.
The Djedefre/Djoser line is 1/3 bisected by the southern line going through the Giza pyramids.
The Giza/Iunu line is bisected by the northern line from Djoser.
Not sure if the scaling down clouds the actual measurements but if the above i
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Chris
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Ancient History
Could you check the accuracy of the line extending to the obelisk at Heliopolis? Iirc that is over 20 kilometres in the distance.
Thanks.
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Chris
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Ancient History
Egyptologist Hans Goedicke;-
"Even a casual look at the map of the Giza site reveals two things: one is that the three pyramids are precisely orientated... the other is that they are not arbitrarily placed in the area. A more careful survey shows that the south-eastern corners of the three pyramids can be joined in a straight line. This initially surprising fact becomes transparent when o
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Chris
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Ancient History
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