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April 18, 2024, 12:17 am UTC    
April 13, 2023 12:20PM
mstower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The accusation, we remember, concerns the
> “opening date”. Well, the journal has the chamber
> open on May 6: open enough for Vyse and Raven to
> look into it at least. Upshot: the date in
> Operations is correct.

Correct as far as we know. A question of criteria arises: what counted as opening? Vyse may not have been entirely consistent on this question.

In his Operations “entry” for March 28, we see this:

Quote

. . . I inserted a candle at the end of a rod, through a small hole, that had been made in the chamber above Davison's (subsequently called Wellington's), and* had the mortification of finding that it was a chamber of construction, like that below it. . . .

While March 30 has this:

Quote

The hole into Wellington's Chamber being practicable, I examined it with Mr. Hill. . . .

In the Appendix, the date of opening of this chamber is given as March 30. Vyse (it seems) did not consider this chamber “open” until the hole was “practicable” and the chamber was entered (and only then did he consider it “discovered”). Inconsistency in the criteria applied could by itself lead to a confusion of dates.

We note that Vyse’s journal entry for May 6 is not clear on whether the relevant “hole” was “practicable” or not at this date:

Quote

S. 6. Sent off the people, ?chapel, breakfast, went to the works, copied the Hieroglyphics in the Temple of the 2d. Pyramid a young Frenchman came who said that he was Son of the Consul I gave him some Candles ?for the Pyramids & soon after ?when I joined Mr Perring, & Mr. Mash at the S. W. angle of the Great Pyramid, I met his Father, to whom I gave ?an ?invitation to ?my Tents; after some time I sent to them; & found ?the ?Pr—, & ?his ?Son, & the old Dragoman, they ? ? ?, a ?watch, & ? their ? ?, (they had ?loyal ?, ? ? ?.) Mr Raven returned from the Great Pyramid, and ?soon ?after ?we ?ascended ?f[o]r ?a ?look ?int[o] ?the room above Nelson’s, ?we ?then paid the people off, & Mr Raven, Mr Perring, Mr Mash, & Myself ?came to Cairo, I took a Bath & dined with Mr Brettel, & ?noted Armenian Effendi who had been educated in England, & who spoke good English.

The wording is consistent with his having merely looked into the chamber (from outside it), as he looked into Wellington’s on March 28: in which case the Operations version would, after all, be wrong, through difference of criteria applied.

M.

Edited 2023--4-20: changed “Inconsistency on” to “Inconsistency in”.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2023 04:22AM by mstower.
Subject Author Posted

The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Hermione March 29, 2023 09:30AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione March 29, 2023 03:48PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Pistol April 01, 2023 07:50PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione April 02, 2023 05:38AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Pistol April 02, 2023 08:53AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Kanga April 08, 2023 07:37PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 09, 2023 06:13AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Ahatmose April 16, 2023 10:58AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Kanga April 17, 2023 12:45AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione April 17, 2023 04:02AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 17, 2023 04:40AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Ahatmose April 17, 2023 01:24PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hans_lune April 17, 2023 10:37PM

Moderation note

Hermione April 07, 2023 08:01AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower March 29, 2023 05:47PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower March 30, 2023 09:11AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower March 30, 2023 02:16PM

Humphries Brewer and Walter Allen

Hermione April 18, 2023 09:16AM

Re: Humphries Brewer and Walter Allen

Hermione April 19, 2023 04:10PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower March 31, 2023 10:18AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione March 31, 2023 02:33PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower March 31, 2023 06:24PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione April 01, 2023 05:19AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 01, 2023 05:08PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 02, 2023 08:59AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Hermione April 02, 2023 10:26AM

The Art of Spurious Argument:: Creighton’s Adventures in Confirmation Bias

mstower April 03, 2023 01:19PM

Also in a photograph (captured from video)

mstower March 08, 2024 08:56PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Corvidius April 07, 2023 05:27AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 07, 2023 02:44PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Corvidius April 08, 2023 02:55AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 08, 2023 06:17AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

Corvidius April 08, 2023 07:24AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 08, 2023 09:02AM

A reminder of the effort it took . . .

mstower April 22, 2023 03:23AM

Who spotted it, Creighton?

mstower April 08, 2023 02:42PM

The good, the bad and the ugly: Creighton’s adventures in transcription

mstower April 09, 2023 08:54AM

Huh?

mstower April 09, 2023 09:58AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton) - YT video, 17:51

mstower April 10, 2023 09:05AM

A question of criteria

mstower April 13, 2023 12:20PM

Re: A question of criteria

Hermione April 13, 2023 02:52PM

A nothingburger animated

mstower April 10, 2023 07:14PM

One he did earlier

mstower April 10, 2023 07:17PM

Surid Missing his Mummies

Hermione April 11, 2023 08:57AM

A clue for the clueless

mstower April 12, 2023 08:07PM

Vyse’s hand forced by his own publication

mstower April 13, 2023 05:12PM

Re: Vyse’s hand forced by his own publication

Hermione April 14, 2023 02:56AM

Re: Vyse’s hand forced by his own publication

mstower April 14, 2023 04:36AM

Re: Vyse’s hand forced by his own publication

Hans_lune April 14, 2023 11:38AM

"Fairies of dreamland"

Hermione April 17, 2023 04:57AM

Crackpot Arithmetic

mstower April 14, 2023 09:25AM

Re: Crackpot Arithmetic

mstower April 14, 2023 10:29AM

Yet more of his stats based on iffy assumptions

mstower April 14, 2023 01:11PM

An odd place to write a journal

mstower April 14, 2023 02:14PM

Re: An odd place to write a journal

mstower April 14, 2023 04:06PM

Re: An odd place to write a journal

mstower April 14, 2023 05:19PM

Re: An odd place to write a journal

mstower April 14, 2023 06:33PM

Re: An odd place to write a journal

Hermione April 14, 2023 05:22PM

Scotsman living in glass house throws another stone.

mstower April 15, 2023 02:54PM

Re: Scotsman living in glass house throws another stone.

mstower April 18, 2023 04:43AM

16th or 17th: which is it, Scott?

mstower April 19, 2023 05:21PM

16th June 1837

Hermione April 20, 2023 04:14AM

Re: 16th June 1837

mstower April 20, 2023 05:51AM

Sometimes in the end it gets through.

mstower April 15, 2023 03:18PM

Re: Sometimes in the end it gets through.

Ahatmose April 15, 2023 03:28PM

Re: Sometimes in the end it gets through.

mstower April 15, 2023 03:36PM

An arduous climb indeed

mstower April 15, 2023 03:31PM

Deux!

mstower April 16, 2023 08:22AM

For any readers who might be rather puzzled ...

Hermione April 16, 2023 10:01AM

Re: Deux!

Pistol April 16, 2023 11:06AM

Also here . . .

mstower April 16, 2023 12:32PM

. . . and here . . .

mstower April 16, 2023 01:10PM

What Creighton is trying here . . .

mstower April 17, 2023 07:55AM

Re: What Creighton is tryng here . . .

Hermione April 17, 2023 08:40AM

A small reminder . . .

mstower April 17, 2023 10:58AM

You have answered this question yourself, Scott.

mstower April 16, 2023 08:53AM

Except for one small detail . . .

mstower April 16, 2023 09:50AM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

Ahatmose April 16, 2023 11:04AM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

mstower April 16, 2023 11:23AM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

Hermione April 17, 2023 06:23AM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

Ahatmose April 17, 2023 01:54PM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

Hermione April 17, 2023 03:02PM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

mstower April 17, 2023 03:17PM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

Hans_lune April 17, 2023 06:08PM

Re: Except for one small detail . . .

mstower April 18, 2023 03:01AM

Scott Creighton’s favourite word?

mstower April 16, 2023 05:30PM

What does fraud look like?

mstower April 17, 2023 01:44PM

Re: What does fraud look like?

Hermione April 17, 2023 03:19PM

Re: What does fraud look like?

mstower April 17, 2023 03:42PM

Re: What does fraud look like?

Hans_lune April 17, 2023 06:10PM

A display of bad-mannered badgering

mstower April 17, 2023 03:00PM

Re: A display of bad-mannered badgering

Hermione April 17, 2023 03:31PM

A quick one

mstower April 20, 2023 04:28AM

Let’s see if this one stays up.

mstower April 20, 2023 02:13PM

Scott Creighton’s Critical Thinking™

mstower April 20, 2023 04:07PM

Scott Creighton’s Confirmation Bias™

mstower April 21, 2023 04:45AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Corvidius April 21, 2023 06:34AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 21, 2023 09:14AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Corvidius April 21, 2023 11:07AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 21, 2023 12:09PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Corvidius April 21, 2023 12:48PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 21, 2023 11:59AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Corvidius April 21, 2023 12:41PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 21, 2023 02:47PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Byrd April 21, 2023 08:46PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 22, 2023 12:44AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Byrd April 22, 2023 11:07AM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Hermione April 21, 2023 03:26PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Corvidius April 21, 2023 03:41PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Hermione April 21, 2023 03:53PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

mstower April 21, 2023 03:56PM

Bizarro Science

mstower April 21, 2023 04:35PM

In other words . . .

mstower April 22, 2023 01:14AM

More prior commentary on his “cache” nonsense

mstower April 22, 2023 03:36AM

Alert readers will notice . . .

mstower April 23, 2023 10:30AM

Re: Alert readers will notice . . .

Hermione April 23, 2023 12:08PM

An example of talking something up arbitrarily

mstower April 23, 2023 03:08PM

Gibberish revisited

mstower April 23, 2023 04:36PM

Re: Gibberish revisited

Hermione April 24, 2023 04:19AM

Four worthwhile words

mstower April 24, 2023 05:18AM

Re: Four worthwhile words

Hermione April 24, 2023 06:13AM

Two more words and a new reading

mstower April 24, 2023 04:34PM

The final word (to complete the phrase)

mstower April 24, 2023 06:31PM

Compare and contrast

mstower April 28, 2023 05:10AM

Vyse’s journal proves flameproof (unlike Creighton’s pants).

mstower April 24, 2023 09:47AM

Re: Vyse’s journal proves flameproof (unlike Creighton’s pants).

Hermione April 24, 2023 11:05AM

Re: Vyse’s journal proves flameproof (unlike Creighton’s pants).

mstower April 24, 2023 11:29AM

On a hiding to nowhere

mstower April 24, 2023 05:02PM

Re: On a hiding to nowhere

mstower April 27, 2023 11:42AM

Re: On a hiding to nowhere

mstower April 27, 2023 01:25PM

For the 673rd time ...

Hermione April 25, 2023 12:13PM

Re: For the 673rd time ...

mstower April 25, 2023 03:04PM

Re: For the 673rd time ...

mstower April 25, 2023 04:06PM

Re: For the 673rd time ...

mstower April 25, 2023 07:07PM

Another name from yesteryear: Ahmed Saeed

mstower April 25, 2023 06:43PM

Re: Another name from yesteryear: Ahmed Saeed

Hermione April 26, 2023 03:30AM

Re: Another name from yesteryear: Ahmed Saeed

mstower April 26, 2023 04:19PM

Re: Another name from yesteryear: Ahmed Saeed

mstower April 27, 2023 08:31AM

Re: Another name from yesteryear: Ahmed Saeed

Hermione April 27, 2023 09:38AM

Goerlitz, Erdmann ... and a certain West Country civil engineer

Hermione April 27, 2023 10:42AM

Re: Goerlitz, Erdmann ... and a certain West Country civil engineer

mstower April 27, 2023 10:57AM

Malfeasance

mstower April 26, 2023 05:24PM

I told him what a mess he’d made of Alford’s idea four (4) years ago.

mstower April 27, 2023 07:16PM

Re: I told him what a mess he’d made of Alford’s idea four (4) years ago.

mstower April 27, 2023 07:31PM

More of the usual silliness on radiocarbon dating

mstower April 28, 2023 04:04PM

Re: More of the usual silliness on radiocarbon dating

Hermione April 29, 2023 03:16AM

Re: More of the usual silliness on radiocarbon dating

mstower April 29, 2023 03:35AM

Still walking backwards

mstower April 29, 2023 05:03AM

Re: Still walking backwards

mstower April 29, 2023 01:49PM

Re: Still walking backwards

mstower April 30, 2023 03:00AM

Deception

mstower April 30, 2023 01:55PM

How many times ... ?

Hermione May 01, 2023 06:23AM

Re: How many times ... ?

mstower May 01, 2023 10:23AM

We may add this example.

mstower May 01, 2023 12:20PM

Khafre architrave

mstower May 01, 2023 02:10PM

Seneferu

mstower May 01, 2023 03:05PM

Yes, thank you very much, . . .

mstower May 01, 2023 03:20PM

Seneferu in Sinai again

mstower May 03, 2023 08:26AM

Various Lepsius

mstower May 03, 2023 10:18AM

Re: Various Lepsius

Corvidius May 04, 2023 04:48AM

Menkaure

mstower May 04, 2023 07:01AM

Re: How many times ... ?

Corvidius May 01, 2023 03:29PM

Re: How many times ... ?

mstower May 01, 2023 05:56PM

Re: How many times ... ?

Corvidius May 02, 2023 02:21AM

Re: How many times ... ?

mstower May 02, 2023 02:51AM

Squash

mstower May 02, 2023 04:03AM

Re: Squash

mstower May 02, 2023 05:56AM

Re: Squash

Corvidius May 02, 2023 07:32AM

Re: Squash

mstower May 02, 2023 07:58AM

Now it’s Möller’s fault.

mstower May 02, 2023 03:39PM

Möller and Lepsius

mstower May 04, 2023 09:09AM

An invitation to the narrative fallacy

mstower May 02, 2023 07:08PM

Re: An invitation to the narrative fallacy

Corvidius May 03, 2023 02:13AM

Re: An invitation to the narrative fallacy

mstower May 03, 2023 03:44AM

Just one catastrophe after another ...

Hermione May 03, 2023 04:12AM

Re: Just one catastrophe after another ...

Corvidius May 03, 2023 11:06AM

Re: Just one catastrophe after another ...

mstower May 03, 2023 12:11PM

Re: An invitation to the narrative fallacy

Hermione May 04, 2023 04:12AM

Creighton pretends to care what “eminent Egyptologists” say.

mstower May 03, 2023 05:25AM

Scott Creighton is no Ray Alan.

mstower May 03, 2023 01:03PM

Re: Scott Creighton is no Ray Alan.

Hermione May 03, 2023 02:15PM

Re: The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3: Signs of the Crime (Scott Creighton - YT video, 17:51)

Hans_lune May 03, 2023 09:36PM

Speak for yourself.

mstower May 07, 2023 02:53AM

Re: Speak for yourself.

mstower May 11, 2023 04:38PM

“Witness M” revisited

mstower May 07, 2023 06:02PM

Re: “Witness M” revisited

Hermione May 08, 2023 04:25AM

There is certainly more to say about this, . . .

mstower May 15, 2023 03:54PM

The Great Pyramid Hoax: Episode 3 - Signs of the Crime (Extended+)

mstower June 05, 2023 02:28PM



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