engbren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Byrd Wrote:
>
> >
> > A worse source is the type you give where (to
> > quote exactly from your paper) you use “The
> > Egyptian men of old who had faithfully studied
> the
> > heavenly bodies and had learned the motions of
> the
> > seven gods...(etc)" -- Although we know the
> author
> > of that quote, we don't know who he means by
> > "Egyptian men of old who had faithfully
> > studied..." and what time period. Did he mean
> the
> > ones at the Library of Alexandria? Was he
> relying
> > on old legends? Did one of the Giza guides
> tell
> > him that bit of data?
> >
> That quote is directly from van der Waerden per
> footnote 11 in my paper.
...
(Engbren)
I am using it as it
> appears to confirm some ancient knowledge but when
> considered in full context, it, along with many
> other similar quotes do not actually confirm that
> knowledge. This is dealt with by Neugebauer:
>
> Neugebauer, O. (1942). Egyptian planetary texts.
> Transactions of the American Philosophical
> Society, 32(2), 209-250.
...
From that paper:
Quote
There is so very little known about Egyptian astronomy that I do not feel obliged to explain at length why I undertook a complete publication of the only two texts which give us any information about an Egyptian description of the planetary movements, even if they belong to so late a period as Roman times (Neugebauer, O. (1942: 209)
Going back to your Footnote 11: "van der Waerden (1985) pp100-101"
And that van der Waerden reference is:
"London papyrus 130, published and translated by Neugebauer & van
Hoesen .. , a horoscope for A.D. 130 is computed by means of "perpetual tables",
which are said to have been composed by "the ancient Egyptian men" ... "
London papyrus 130 leads to: O. Neugebauer & H.B. van Hoesen, Greek Horoscopes, Memoirs of the American Philosophical Soc. 48, Philadelphia 1959, pp. 21-28.
see also: [
www.bl.uk]
More on Titus Petenius: [
www.google.co.uk]
(And a bit more: [
www.google.co.uk])
So Titus Petenius was likely a Roman citizen.
Back to van der Waerden (1985):
Quote
Titus mentions as his source "the ancient Egyptian men". We have seen that
in the astrological literature this expression is a synonym of "Nechepso and
Petosiris" (101)
Quote
About the middle of the second century B.C. an extensive astrological treatise
appeared in Hellenistic Egypt. It was ascribed to the ficticious authors "Nechepso and Petosiris". A king named Nechepso is listed among rulers of the
twenty-sixth dynasty (663-522 B.C.) in the didactical poem of Manetho (96)
Pg. 97 has something interesting to say:
Quote
Modern investigations have shown clearly that horoscope astrology spread
from Babylon to Egypt (see e.g. Cramer3, pp. 4-9). In fact, the astrological
doctrines ascribed to the "Egyptians" are very much like those of the Chaldaeans.
The authors of the book of Petosiris must have known this, but since they ascribed these doctrines to the ancient Egyptian king Nechepso and his astronomical
adviser Petosiris, they could not admit that astrology came from Babylonia
in the Hellenistic age. Therefore they invented an elaborate story ...
So, according to this, the "Egyptian men of old" seems really just another way of saying "Babylonians" ...
Hermione
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2022 01:41AM by Hermione.
