Corvidius Wrote:
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> [mjn.host.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk]
>
> And that is my own view, but there is a passage in
> Morenz that has always stuck in my mind, and I'll
> give a full-ish quote for context.
>
> "Nor can it be ruled out that ntr may not
> originally have been a generic name (appellative)
> at all, but rather a proper name. In any case it
> is striking that the most human of gods, Osiris,
> is called ntr in a particular context: in quite a
> number of puns this word is used as though it were
> his name"

I should point out that this was published in 1973, about 50 years ago. Egyptologists have uncovered a lot of material since then (Raffele's predynastic material comes to mind) and some ideas that were considered useful lines of pursuit back then have been abandoned. Wilkinson is one who supports the idea of Khentiamenu as being a possible title for Osiris... but not 'ntr' (at least that I see.)

>
> So while there is no doubt at all that when we see
> ntr that, in the vast majority of cases, it does
> mean "gods", or "divinities" as some prefer, but
> there is this area of doubt as to it's origins and
> original use. So when Morenz ties in the obscure
> origins of the word ntr with Osiris, whose origins
> are also obscure, it does pose interesting
> questions. For instance, Hornung categorically
> states that he sees no God behind all the other
> gods, and that none of the creator gods, even with
> their murky non name names, if you see what I
> mean, quite fits the bill for being The God,
> Osiris, as king on Earth after the departure of
> Ra, and as regenerator of Ra and everything else,
> to an extent fits the bill as being almost an uber
> god, even though he is not a creator.

I am not aware of early texts (4th dynasty or earlier) where Ra departs Earth and leaves Osiris as king. The Ennead was only the regional pantheon for Heliopolis - there were other pantheon groups (the Ogdoad) during the predynastic and early dynasties. And I believe that the story of the end of the universe and Ra involves Ra and Thoth -- not Osiris (again, if I'm mistaken, someone please link the right source.)

> The work of
> the creator gods was done once, and that was their
> job done, to an extent excepting Ra, yet Osiris
> has to keep it all running until the end of time,
> and may have, in the minds of the Egyptians, being
> doing this since before dynastic times, just not
> in the name Osiris, but as "God", ntr, until the
> name was used for all gods.

Osiris as "teacher of mankind" comes from Diodorus Siclus and around 60 AD -- Ra does not "create things" and then leave stuff in Osiris' hands.

Also, if you look at the hieroglyphs of the Pyramid Texts on the walls of Unas' South Chamber (https://www.pyramidtextsonline.com/AntesouthH.htm), you will see the names of the gods written without the flags....but (fourth column from the right, for example) the three flags for "gods" as part of a sentence.

> I honestly don't know, but all that ramble does
> suggest the posibility, even if slim, and may
> explain the almost overnight appearance of a major
> god like Osiris if he had previously been hidden
> in other names, possibly even just, ntr, a long
> time in their past.

Actually, since records are scant, ALL the major deities seem to have an almost "overnight appearance."

-- Byrd
Moderator, Hall of Ma'at