Byrd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Corvidius Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > And as for the discussion on ntr, I wonder if
> it
> > can be ascertained if this is a generic name,
> or
> > the name of a god, in particular, Osiris, a
> name
> > he may have had before he appears in the record
> as
> > Osiris, and is Osiris an epithet of
> > Khenty-imentiu, which may, or may not, be an
> > epithet of ntr, if it started as the name of an
> > individual god. These are the matters I would
> > prefer to discuss, but, alas, static always
> drowns
> > out the transmission.
>
> It is a generic term for
> 'divine/divinity/divinities'. There are thousands
> of examples... in this translation and
> transliteration of a stela of Tutmosis I, you can
> see the 'ntr' used both as a singular (for a
> divinity) and as a plural (groups of divinities)
> as well as for thepharaoh.
> [
mjn.host.cs.st-andrews.ac.uk]
And that is my own view, but there is a passage in Morenz that has always stuck in my mind, and I'll give a full-ish quote for context.
"Nor can it be ruled out that ntr may not originally have been a generic name (appellative) at all, but rather a proper name. In any case it is striking that the most human of gods, Osiris, is called ntr in a particular context: in quite a number of puns this word is used as though it were his name"
So while there is no doubt at all that when we see ntr that, in the vast majority of cases, it does mean "gods", or "divinities" as some prefer, but there is this area of doubt as to it's origins and original use. So when Morenz ties in the obscure origins of the word ntr with Osiris, whose origins are also obscure, it does pose interesting questions. For instance, Hornung categorically states that he sees no God behind all the other gods, and that none of the creator gods, even with their murky non name names, if you see what I mean, quite fits the bill for being The God, Osiris, as king on Earth after the departure of Ra, and as regenerator of Ra and everything else, to an extent fits the bill as being almost an uber god, even though he is not a creator. The work of the creator gods was done once, and that was their job done, to an extent excepting Ra, yet Osiris has to keep it all running until the end of time, and may have, in the minds of the Egyptians, being doing this since before dynastic times, just not in the name Osiris, but as "God", ntr, until the name was used for all gods.
I honestly don't know, but all that ramble does suggest the posibility, even if slim, and may explain the almost overnight appearance of a major god like Osiris if he had previously been hidden in other names, possibly even just, ntr, a long time in their past.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/23/2021 05:52PM by Corvidius.